Any legit sites?

Topic created by Anona Mouse
on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 17:55

Anona Mouse said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 17:55...

Like many others, I've had trouble finding sites that sell legit products and not the cheap imports that contain who-knows-what.
Not in a position to make my own and I'm a long time casual user so that's too much of an investment for me.

I've hit the local places in a 50 mile radius to no avail. Once in a while I get what looks legit, buy it, take a whiff in the car and throw it in the trash.
That gets expensive.

Don't really feel confident with the websites as they seem to mix a lot of fiction with their info. And even the PWD website directs you to some other site whose Whois lookup seems odd .. with some sketchy looking websites under the same ownership. Could be fine, but when you can't trust people face to face, trusting them online when they treat you like you've just wandered into an adult bookstore wearing a fedora and overcoat doesn't seem like the best course of action either.

I've been reading here for a couple of years off an on, but there seems to be as much confusion here as anywhere else. (with a few exceptions)
I realize much of it is preference, but when it comes to unknown quantities, that's dangerous. We're using this off-label so liability is zero.

Anyone know of suppliers of isobutyl that actually contains what they say it does?

And yes, I'm an old fart who fondly remembers the old amyl in glass ampules that you had to pop.. but getting those was never easy anyway.
I'd settle for a nice head rush that doesn't smell like fruit or detergent or leave me with a hangover or blind

Nitritespecialist said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 20:37...

I started poppers in 2008. I am not positive which type of nitrite they were, but I don't remember any distinctive odor, bad or good. Since 2010, I haven't been able to get any good ones. They've all been weak and acidic. LockerRoom in Canada seems to be able to make poppers that still have some potency at the point of sale. But I have received duds from them too. I have no clue where to buy them in the USA. Langhorne PA has a popper making factory, but every bottle I tried was weak and acidic. I'm not the type of person who keeps buying from the same vendor after I've been screwed, even once.

I am going to stick with making IPN for now since it's very very cheap and easy to get all the reagents except for perhaps the sodium nitrite, which I got from Consolidated. More people are trying to make it illegal to sell because some have used it to kill people.

The only machine necessary is a mag stir. Although you could probably manually mix as well. I bought the glass funnels and stand, but I don't need them for 20 to 50 ml brews. So a waste of money.

I wouldn't buy butanol, pentanol or isobutanol except from TCI via a reseller. They comes factory sealed, assuring they have not been poured off and exposed to lots of O2. IPA, 70%, is available all over the place. Muriatic acid is available at Menards and HomeDepot. A drier is necessary...either Potassium Carbonate or Calcium Chloride, anhydrous only. Baking soda....is used to neutralize. Activated alumina and Potassium Carbonate can be also be used to keep the popper fresh once it's made.

Nitritespecialist said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 20:42...

In the past, I would not recommend IPN because virtually every brew I made was toxic garbage.....had potent effects, but within 5 minutes, my blood pressure would always cave.

In the past few months, I have been making a much improved IPN that doesn't give these toxic effects, is easier to make, and has a much better odor. The major change was simply using less water in the pot. When using 70% IPA, no extra water is necessary, and is likely to be detrimental, as all prior brews were too toxic and now none of them are. But they are VERY VERY potent, with a very aromatic mild odor.

The Professor said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 21:18...

Anona Mouse,

The above blather is from a known liar and failure wanna be that you will become all too familiar with if you hang around here long enough.

Ken abandoned his own making group, then had a fit when all of its members surpassed his abilities (by listening to actual chemists teachi8ng proven methods, not his crackpot ideas).

Ken made a nuisance of himself at reddit, and was eventually banned (although he still tries to post there occassionally)

Now he's here, worse-for-the-wear, and has found a site that can't ban him, so he can continue to be a nuisance, liar, gaslighting lunatic.

he goes by manty names, but you'll recognize his particularly inane, willfully ignorant attempts to be a credible source of information.

e.g. He's denouncing the Langhorne PA 'outfit' to you, but weeks ago they were the best thing since sliced bread, and weeks before that they were nothing remarkable.

He'll argue BOTH sides of an issue just to hold the attention stage a bit longer; total waste of time.

I don't think that there are any vendors out there that make a good popper, anony mouse. The reaction is simple, but most are just following 'recipes' that they cull from patents, often from last century, and often producing nitrites that aren't suitable for human use (headache, sore throat, long recovery times, etc.)

By paying attention to the degradation process, it's possible to stop the cascade at its source, which provides a smooth long lasting product. It won't smell like 'traditional' poppers, it'll smell less overall, but will preserve longer.

By paying attention to the reactions requirements, it's possible to prep a product that is extremely pure, having a 'recovery' time that's measured in minutes (not hours or days of hangover)

TO get there, DIY is the way.

if you are interested:

https://nublu.maitriworks.org/files/Alky%20Nitrite%20Preparation%20wiki.pdf

if you need support for the above document, ask -prof- on reddit for access to the PopperMakers subreddit

Wenis said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 21:28...

Yes. Im about to do a full review today on this company www.Vhcleaner.com or it might be with an s on the end. Anyways they hav quaility product i can vague 4. Nd 3 day shipping speed. Home brew containing ISOBUTYL nd SEC-BUTYL. Its great stuff. Almost made me fall out. If u look uo their views on here or on popperpigs reddit 90% are postive. The other 10% is ppl who acutally claim its 2 strong. Ive seen alot post of ppl saying out of all they tried its the strongest. Ide agree. Nd i got the PL-100 wen they hav a PL-200 out but it was out of stock. 2 say the least look into it cuz u wont be dus apoinonted. Or wait 4 my full review with pics later today. Ships from chagico. Cheers, -Wenis (im not affilated with any site. Im just a consumor ;-) i can tell you 100% sure tht its stronger than legit rush 30ml black label and 10ml jungle juice black label. But theirs other ppl who tried more poppers like tes fort tiwan blue everst prenium. Nd they find vhc strongest. I think their was a guy whod said he been using poppers of differnt kinds for over 10 yrs. Nd wen he finally tried vhc he said it was stronger than any other brands hes tried. Nd i mean it makes sense . its got sweet sweet SEC-BUTYL in it wen others just hav ISOBUTYL in it. They hav a really chemist nd use to operate under a differnt name back in the day which also recived alot of hype nd credit. Plus their bottle dosent look sus so if some saw it u culd easily say oh thts just elctronic cleaner 4 my computer ya kno so thts a plus. -Wenis

Wenis said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 21:38...

Nitritespecialist wuts up man, so ur working on a brew currently? Im srry to kno ur having a hard time getting poppers. I cant speak to tht cuz i wuld of 1st tried/used poppers in 2013. And then didnt really do them at all 4 a long time. Intill now nd im super into it. Ide say some personal info about myself so it makes more sense but maby its better i dont. I think it wuld be cool to jessie james it. If i was rich ide be fring. U jessie pinkmen and professor whalter white. And ide set u guys up a lab nd weed hav breaking bad poppers edition where u guys fright over stuff lol nd try to swat flys WENIS!!!!!!!!!!!! WENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerly, -Wenis <3 ! Tht wuld be so epic 2 watch lol. Nd i kno professor puts u down but i think hes 2 hard on u atleast 2 me u seem really knowagble on this , but i think u hav differnt prefences on stuff nd thts what he dosent agree with. But we need inovators who r willing to try new things thts how u find the magic . the same old recipes dont seem to work or be strong enough

Also question. Im wondering why. If say u do a brew. Nd u do it excatly the same way u did the last. Tht it will come out. More strong. Or less strong?

Like what causes tht differnce? Is it a change of potencey of the materials u use. Can not be regulated idk , i like science but ima science noob

-Wenis

The Professor said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 21:40...

sec-Butyl is very nice

Nitritespecialist said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 22:27...

The Professor has no desire to help people save time and money...nor does he seem to have the correct knowledge to make good poppers that don't need distilled. I know his poppers are bad, because he sent me some. He only knows of my poppers from my own self-reported descriptions. He has no first hand knowledge.

He doesn't know how to make good isopropyl nitrite, which is by far the cheapest and easiest to make. He would instead have you buy expensive alcohols from second hand chemical dealers. He would have you buy expensive lab equipment...which is absolutely NOT necessary for smaller brews...up to 50mls which is plenty for personal use.

He debunks every method without ever trying it in earnest. I have tried a multitude of methods in earnest, which is why I have now discovered that the quality of the alcohol and water amounts are crucial. If my IPN was not proving to be so good after several months and many brews, I would say so...I always have. The Professor will never admit any failure. He's a Trump persona.

Nitritespecialist said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 22:31...

If your reagents are pure enough, especially the alcohols, the Professor's methods should work OK. But you need factory sealed alcohols in glass bottles. In fact, almost any chemically sound method will work IF you have pure enough alcohols, reagents and ratios and stay below a certain temp....like 50F.

Nitritespecialist said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 22:34...

I am using 70% IPA in plastic, sealed containers from Walmart...these have expiration dates....they are cheap....and if one doesn't work well...it's easy to get more. This isn't so with the other alcohols...they are expensive and much harder to obtain...you can't merely drive around the corner to the nearest store.

The Professor said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 22:52...

again with the ad hominem and straw man attacks. This site NEVER has as much activity as when a new poster asks for advice and is met with only lies, ad hominem attacks, and straw man fallacies from Ken.

Anona Mouse said on Sat, 7 Jan 2023 at 23:21...

Thanks for the responses!

I've followed along here long enough to see some of the trends and sidestep most of the quicksand. I downloaded the pdf long ago, must be a few years back now, when I had a work area in an unheated factory building.. I remember thinking that heat wouldn't be a problem, since I often had to clear away ice before I could use water driven equipment.
I'm no chemist.. hell, I feel a sting of pride if I can just pronounce most of the words I see here. Have a vague (very vague) understanding of some of the principles involved; enough to know what I don't know, but not enough to venture out on my own. It seems like it would be enjoyable, but I'm not in a position to be able to do it myself.. I had considered it, even have a Cimarec 3 and vacuum pump collecting dust. Ah well..

May head over to reddit. I'd seen it there but was reluctant to put my info into yet another site.. I've been deleting accounts over the last several years (paranoid? maybe..) but if there's good discussions going on I wouldn't mind reading. I enjoy people working their craft.
And I'll still keep an eye out here.

The Professor said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 00:00...

Good luck in your quest. If it's been a year, the new version contains much more explanatory text; it might be useful to you.

Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 01:03...

For esters in which the alcohol and carboxylic acid are sterically unhindered, a 1:1 mixture of alcohol and
carboxylic acid will yield an equilibrium mixture that is about 70% ester. This means that if ester were
isolated from this mixture, at best a 70% yield would be obtained. A 70% yield is not usually considered to
be acceptable for a synthesis reaction. Recall Le Chatelier’s principle. If a ratio of 3:1 or 1:3 of alcohol:
carboxylic acid were used, the equilibrium would be driven towards ester product and for unhindered
systems would result in a 90% yield. In practice often a 10:1 or 1:10 ratio is used, which results in even
higher yields of ester. The drawback in this method is that most of the excess reactant is left unreacted,
requiring extra steps to remove it. It is also wasteful. A second method to drive the equilibrium towards
product is to remove one of the products as it is formed. This is also an application of Le Chatelier’s
principle. Note that one product of the esterification reaction is water. A simple experimental set-up can be
used to remove the water from the reaction mixture as the water, and ester, form. As water is removed the
equilibrium is upset and corrects itself by moving towards the products. Eventually, when the final amount
of water is removed and all the starting materials have reacted, the reaction has gone to completion and a
100% yield can be attained. This is the method used in your esterification reaction. Think of this as pulling
the equilibrium towards product, whereas using an excess of one of the reactants is more like pushing the
reaction towards product.
The set-up used to remove water is shown below. Reactants and sulfuric acid catalyst are placed into the
round-bottomed flask, which is heated in a sand bath. Ester and water begin to form and distill up into the
air-cooled condenser along with reactants. The vapors, upon contacting the cool tube, condense back to
liquid and flow back down towards the reaction flask. The side-arm between the condenser and flask
collects the descending liquid. Because water is immiscible with the organic phase and also denser than the
organic phase it will collect as a separate lower phase in the side-arm. Once the side-arm is full of liquid the
organic phase overflows back into the reaction flask, leaving the lower water phase trapped at the bottom of
the side-arm. Thus the water that is produced in the reaction is being removed from the reaction mixture,
allowing the reaction equilibrium to be driven towards products. Eventually when all of the reactants are
converted to ester and water the reaction can be stopped. An extraction process removes sulfuric acid and a
final distillation purifies the ester product. The identity and purity of the product is determined by infrared
(IR) spectroscopy.
air-cooled
condenser
side arm
3
The Experiment.
ESSENTIAL: Prelab Work. You will be assigned to prepare one of the following esters: 3-methylbutyl
propionate, 3-methylbutyl acetate, or n-propyl propionate (3-methylbutyl = isoamyl = isopentyl, propionate
= propanoate). Which ester you are assigned to prepare will be posted on the Chem 269 website. BEFORE
YOU COME TO LAB, you must plan a synthesis and write out a procedure to produce 11 mmol of your
assigned ester. Quantities (mol, g, mL) and BPs of reagents and products must be determined before you
come to lab. Because each student will be assigned to synthesize one of several possible compounds,
quantities of reactants will differ from student to student. If you have trouble with the calculations, see
someone BEFORE your lab period. If you come to lab unprepared you will lose points. The OWL
assignment steps you clearly through the calculations.
From the name of your assigned ester you must first determine what alcohol and what carboxylic acid will be
needed to prepare that ester. To do this you must know how esters are named. Read the references to your
lecture text. Example: assume that your ester is n-pentyl hexanoate (this is just an example and is not one of

Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 01:10...

The above procedure explains in detail how to make an ester that is very pure. It describes how equilibrium is quickly reached, at which time the reaction has not reached completion. Something has to give in order to get a high volume, high purity yield. Water is a by product...it's the enemy of the yield....they suggest removing it as the reaction proceeds.

You can also limit the amount of water needed to dissolve reactants. In the method I have used to make IPN, salt is always visible and present...it constantly pulls the water out of the mix.

The Professor said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 02:25...

Again, your own ignorance reveals the lies you are trying to profer

1. FACT: equilibrium cannot be reached if the reaction is not yet complete; your own experience with dead bottles 'magically' becoming slightly more potent over time reveals the extended length of reaching equilibrium (i've characterized it; it's between 22 and 28 days with a sealed bottle).

3. FACT: SEVERAL preps exist with methods that provide greater than 95% esterification; you are, once again, twisting words to suit your current fantasy) those preps do NOT limit the reagent.

4. There's a HUGE difference between starting out with limited reagent (water, which allows the reaction to happen at all) and REMOVING water as it is created, which will SLIGHTLY cooerce the reaction to continue. again, you misunderstand a writeup (this time by ORGO LAB FINAL STUDY GUIDE (OWLS)) as evidence that you are right.

all of this proves is that you don't really understand much of what you read, which is nothing new, and we've gone over this before (you post a hundred paragraphs that you THINK support your fever dream; the whole scam is revealed as simple ignorance; wait a few weeks, rinse and repeat.

BTW chief, of the alcohols typically discussed, ISOPROPYL is the MOST sterically hindered.

go blather in a corner to yourself some more; you've said NOTHING (again)

this part of the writeup (which ken has perhaps purposefully not posted) is vital:

Reaction of an alcohol and a carboxylic acid to form an ester is an equilibrium reaction. In your experiment the method used to drive the equilibrium towards product and thus to obtain the maximum yield of ester is to:
a. use an excess of both alcohol and carboxylic acid.
b. use an excess of carboxylic acid.
c. use an excess of alcohol.
d. remove water as it it is formed.
e. remove ester as it is formed.

the answer, regarding techniques to increase esterification %, CAN be all of the above (as explained elsewhere in the text)

the part of the question that makes the instructor's correct answer D: remove water as it is formed, is that is the the only answer that considers le Chatellier's principle as a valid method to produce more concentrated ester by MANIPULATING THE EQUILIBRIUM.

that is the main thrust of the text; which you ignore or don't comprehend; that's the place YOU have put yourself; doomed to arfgue with actual chemists about simple principles that they are VERY familiar with.

you either know this, and are purposefully hiding it from a virgin reader in order to make a point, or you are clueless that LeChatellier's principle has a RANGE of performance that can NOT be made to counteract the effects of undergoing the prep INCORRECTLY s you do (YOU DON"T respect the equilibrium constant shift with temperature, which has already been previously demonstrated as having a MUCH greater effect than LeChattellier's pinciple.

You are once again caught in a lie, and attempt to foist falsehoods on unknowing victims.

TL;DR

trying to overcome the eq constant by using le'chattelier's principle CANNOT make up for making the stuff with a warmer environmnent.

The product literally falls apart AS you are making it by several orders of magnitude (as other publications and our wiki demonstrate)

are you so truly out of fantastical ideas that now all you can do is post paragraphs from texts that you don't understand, but which also demonstrate the inane concept and ignorance that is YOU, while at the same time blaming ME for your woes?

Wenis said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 02:42...

Hi all. I put up my master review. The Professor .... I mean i started doing poppers or tried them for a bit in 2013 and i liked them. I just got back into them now. So basically i cant speak to the quailty of any poppers b4 2013 which i kno is well past the golden ear of 70 80 90s . so if u mean tht the poppers around now r all much less strong. I culdnt comment as to weather thts true or not but ive heard it from others. What i can atest to and for at the current moment. Of me using RUSH BLACK LABEL 30ML nd JUNGLE JUICE 10ML and most importantly PL-100 VHC 12ML i can say im very happy with the poppers i have. THEY R GIVING ME GREAT EFFECTS. The only side effect ill notice is if im doing them alot then i might start 2 get a headache. Nd wen i do thts when i kno its time to stop. But this will take a little while to happen. Nd in 10 15 mins the head ache goes away. And i can enjoy them the very next day with no reduction in feeling. Nd i dont get hangovers. SEC-BUTYL is the shit like you just said. So if i hav my PL-100 ISOBUTYL SECBUTYL product nd im able to do it nd either bate or hav a fuck sess AND IT FEELS AMAZEING. Read my vhc master review. Im in love with the stuff. I wuld not at all call it tht all poppers are now crap. If tht was the case. Why am i in love with mine? Nd feeling super awasome wen using them? Only thing is ig if u rember the popper feelings from like the 80s nd the ones now r like say 70% weaker or something then ig i culd c how u wuld be disapointed. But i dont get it cuz rush has been around from the start so they wuld of had to change their product. But. Anona Mouse i strongly believe u can still get a good popper exp. R u someone who has done them in the golden era? Idk. But professor just said tht sec butyl is good shit. Nd im telling u a site where u can get it. Read other reviews on it. But im not lying about its effects. Anona Mouse ide say give vhc a try nd if it dosent work for u. Well then u just arnt gonna b able to do poppers ig or u culd order from ken nd depending on his batch go blue in 3 mins lol no offence ken im jk . but i kno in my heart ken(jessie pinkmen nd professor(walter white) will work it out adventally nd be brewing up the best baby blue in no time !!!!!!

The Dreadful Flying Glove said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 14:42...

Quick warning / summary: Nitritespecialist is a Lord Haw- Haw who spouts ever changing often hysterical baloney based upon his own mad opinions. Previous highlights: PWD Rush was a secret amyl formula, LR pentyl then PA butyl/ hexyl are the true source of poppers nirvana, currently it is the fuck awful IPN. He also believes in conspiracies by a/ "them" - basically any poppers manufacturer who doesn't answer his blitzkreig of emails to his satisfaction. b/ powerful murky forces who seek to deny (for some reason) anal penetration.

Having said that he can be witty, amusing and even intelligent when not following his latest hobby horse.

To answer the OP: sorry, most sites are "legit" as they all sell the same thing from a handful of factories. The only difference is price and freshness and location. UK sells mostly IPN, USA mostly butyl / hexyl, Europe mostly pentyl.
That's all folks...oh and there are some newly arrived artisan producers who sell now, apart from the big guys who have been around for years now.

Anona Mouse said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 15:06...

I guess my original question comes down to looking for trustworthy supply.
We see all the same brand names (many names for the same product) but we also see the same 'product' and packaging where the contents don't resemble the supposed ingredients. IPN should smell like IPN. Even degraded IPN should smell like degraded IPN. Too many suppliers seem to be ok with substituting product because A. They saved $10/case or B. Who would know the difference, and if they do, who would they complain to? Too many even sell knockoffs of the knockoffs. And I have no idea what's really in that bottle.

I can read reviews, and can read the reviewers. Guess I'm looking for info from the quiet readers who could say "I have bought from Supplier Z for X number of years and haven't had a problem". (including "I didn't start getting junk emails 10 days after purchase" )

Turned out to be a more complicated post than I thought!

Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 17:33...

@Anona....I want the same thing.....poppers like Joe Miller was making/selling before his death in August 2010. It's been along quest of trial and error the last 12 years....trying to figure out what and how his were so consistently good.

The Professor/Thomas/PopChef, the disabled, old vet in Nebraska did a one and done 10 years, making the claim he had found the secret to making great poppers....I tried his and they were far worse than anything I had made.....though to hear him, he suggests otherwise.

I just tried my 4 day old IPN and it's amazing. It's very aromatic and potent. I don't get any toxic side effects as when I was using The Professor's ratios, which calls for much more water.

There's a point, as the popper is degrading slowly, that effects seem to peak in pleasure. Today, I hit that point and it's like cheating death.

For 12 years, I kept saying that IPN was inherently toxic, and now I believe it was just poorly made, primarily from the addition of too much water in the reaction pot. Water is a reaction by product...when it accumulates, it stops the esterification process. So by either extracting water as it forms, OR by limiting the amount of water used, you get a better, more pure, more aromatic product, capable of preservation and very low on toxic effects.

The Professor said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 17:58...

Not true, by following your recipe, the result is a less pure, less reactive product that is half as strong as IPN should be. You happen to like that; good for you, but eh to anybody whose body is a worthy vessel

Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 18:00...

Once again, the Professor is so busy attacking, that he misses how to make really great IPN at a fraction of the cost of making the other poppers.

He has NEVER tried making IPN without adding any additional water than that which is already in 70%IPA and 32% HCl.

I have tried and succeeded MANY MANY MANY times.

Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 18:02...

The Professor has no idea what's in my IPN but assumes a posture that he does. He can't possibly know because he's never tried using a lot less water.....and he certainly hasn't analyzed any of my brews.

My IPN is far FAR BETTER in both odor and effects...and it preserves well....that's strong evidence it is MORE pure....not less.

Anonymous said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 18:07...

It doesn't matter how bad the Professor's poppers are...I mean the cloudy, milky, smelly nature of them.....because fortunately HE IS NOT one of the major makers and distributors of them.

The Dreadful Flying Glove said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 18:22...

@Anona Mouse: look at the CAS number and you will see what's inside. All of these nitrites will degrade over time, that's all. You really should stay away from propyl, actually propyl has a longer shelf life and is cheap, it's also nasty.

Anona Mouse said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 19:20...

Glove: Have no intention of trying propyl, looking for good old fashioned IBN (and not fake isobutyl with copied shrink wrap) but not many places will offer up the CAS number until you fork over cash. And in an industry that thrives on counterfeits, the CAS number is really meaningless.
I know what I'll buy, just having a hard time finding it. 100% of what I see locally is indistinguishable from the real thing until it hits your nostril. Then it's not even similar.
So I'm looking for vendors people have used successfully.

Hell, I'm tempted to talk to Pac-West about selling out of my car.

The Professor said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 19:26...

It's true that I haven't sampled Ken's output, but I can do math; his 'recipes' are always failing one of the first principles of chemistry; 'respect the stoichiometry'.

It doesn't take a genius to understand, for example, that something that is 162% reactive (ethyl nitrite) (100% being the desired ingredient) is going to cause SEVERE problems very quickly; yet Ken tried it anyway, and nearly killed himself.

Likewise, if the math shows only a partial esterification is possible, and the process is happening at or near room temperature, then the prep is doomed; one can know this WITHOUT having to suffer the consequences themselves; it's called LEARNING.

The Dreadful Flying Glove said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 20:06...

@Anona Mouse: there was a guy called Snake who used to offer it There are also some outlets in the US who ship overseas. There's no butyl in Europe, the French might have made it for a while, but not anymore. I think you can find hexyl nitrite :-(

Pac-West do not ship overseas.

You said earlier you remembered "the old amyl", so why you want butyl now? Pentyl Nitrite should suit you fine...or are you chasing the lost rainbow of youth maybe. Don't blame you...everything was better back then....bulges in 501's were bigger too...and people were just... better. Hell...look at Nixon..the big bogeyman of the 1970s for some....fast forward to now....Trump, Putin, Giuliani, etc different league. Oh yesterday...<cries into a bowl of cornflakes>

Anona Mouse said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 21:01...

Not chasing amyl, just remember a medical supplier slipped a few ampoules to me now and then. (kinda liked the smell, believe it or not)
Not chasing that, just old enough to remember it.

But isobutyl is fine. Just can't source it locally anymore and tired of spending money only to find out that whatever is in the bottle is a mystery. We're not supposed to smell it, it's a LEATHER CLEANER! Just like it used to be a room odorizer, because who doesn't want their living room to smell like last call in a strip joint when the janitor is mopping up puke?

I know of a few places I trust, but I'm in a remote area and the 100+ mile drive (one way) isn't worth that. For some reason, the last two years have been the worst. Same bottle, label and caps, (at a quick glance) but no idea what's inside. Doesn't even smell like old stock. Smells like someone decided to cheap out and find lower priced substitutes for the ingredients.
Ah well.. the quest continues..

Wenis said on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 at 23:10...

@Anona Mouse Anona Mouse HELLO ATTENTION i am anwsering ur question 4 u. !!!!! Did you read my review. I JUST BOUGHT FROM VHC THEY HAVE GREAT LEGIT PRODUCT OF ISOBUTYL AND SECBUTYL POPPER. i legit just bought from them. Read my review. They r a trustworthy company with a great product. Read other reviews on them ppl talk highly about them. I strongly reccomend. I hav not bought from them 4 yrs but others hav i got the PL-100 ITS FANTASTIC give them a try !!!!!!!! lol (The Professor even says how good sec-butyl is and after the product i recived i strongly agree i am now a life long custermer 4 sure u want the good stuff here it is) www.vhcleaner.com/

Anona Mouse said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 00:34...

Did I read your review?
I daresay I couldn't help it; it's in every recent thread.

I'm not looking to change product, isobutyl is fine.
They don't have that.

Whether isobutyl sec-butyl, tert-butyl isn't the issue I have.
It's whether or not they are selling what they claim. And too
often, (especially recently) fewer are doing that. This is why
I'm asking about companies that people have a history with.

Just cracked open another Gold Rush, took a whiff and started
coughing. Heavy chest. Smell reminds me a bit of nitrocellulose
lacquer and something vaguely fruity. Shrink wrap label looks legit enough, but I should have brought my glasses to read the fine print about Nail Polish Remover and Adhesion Promoter. PWD on the cap.
Boston round bottles are cheap enough and you can buy them on Amazon. Pre-printed shrink wrap rolls are a bit more, but not out of the reach of a determined counterfeiter. U-Line has boxes that will fit anything you want.

I did try washing it, but it didn't help.
Small whiff was enough to throw it away.

So as you can see, finding product is easy. It's everywhere.
Finding suppliers who sell what they claim?
Getting harder to find.

Hoped I wouldn't have to buy online, but it's coming down to that.

The Professor said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 00:56...

Mouse,

That acrid aroma that is caustic to your throat is typical of product that hasn't been properly neutralized, or is so old that there's a large amount of acid distributed in it.

The larger suppliers can suffer from that due to stock sitting on the shelves and building up acid as they decompose.

Some of the smaller outfits don't bother to neutralize at all, since the process reduces yield a bit; they'll tell you that the throat wisdom means it's potent; not so.

When they are made right, and stored properly, they will be fresh, smooth and potent, with a very favorite faint aroma.

Other than DIY (best option IMO), small products that are well received (not producing thanks of bottles and selling them in an already decomposed state) and often out of stock (so the inventory they have is not months or years old) should yield a another experience.

I don't know your country of origin, but shipping overseas greatly affects the popper; reducing potency and increasing size effects.

The group in Chicago that wenis posted sounds promising (I have not tried their product). I'm 60 it's old, and my sweet spot is a blend of n-Butyl, sec-butyl and tert-butyl nitrites. Their PL-100 product seems to be a blend of isobutyl and sec- butyl (both very close to each other and slightly more powerful than the original OTC stuff (n- Butyl).

As isobutyl degrades, (if you are interested, our wiki (posted previously) contains information on the degradation cascade) isobutyl is notorious for smelling very acrid. Sec-n-Butyl is very close in potency, so hopefully the pl-100 is more sec than iso.

Artisanal is also a small group that makes blends, was originally very harsh (they weren't properly neutralizing, but supposedly have changed (the stuff is so inexpensive to make, and their prices easily allow them to make properly, they were just greedy.

Ymmv, but I've never tried their stuff. I do know that their maker used to be a part of our group, but was found to be a greedy jerk paying as a 'groovy' hope maker. For that reason alone, I wouldn't suggest their product, but they are an outfit that should be making great stuff.

I've heard good reports from golden cock also, but haven't any personal experience with them.

I'm not much use for recommendations other than DIY, sorry

The Professor said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 00:57...

By 'I even tried washing it' how did you wash the product, if I may ask?

Anona Mouse said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 01:26...

Prof..
I mixed in sodium carbonate and distilled water, drew it off with a syringe.
Smell wasn't as bad, still hit the chest but no rush.

This certainly could be some of Farr's old stock. I've had it for
a couple of weeks in the freezer, and the store I got it from isn't
keeping much on hand, so they got it within the last month. But who
knows how long it has been in a warehouse? Still, I've smelled old
IBN before and yes, it's acrid. Don't think it's just age, though I could be wrong.

The Professor said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 01:33...

Mouse,
That should have neutralized excess acid. When most people say 'Wash' the are referring to a brine and water solution. Technically, this is a liquid-liquid extraction targeted to extract excess water, which works NOT neutralize acid.

It sounds like you did about as much as you could for the product after production.

Anona Mouse said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 01:44...

Well, I had nothing to lose..
I wasn't going to inhale the stuff :-)

Wenis said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 03:59...

Well i was just promoting a product tht i think is very good. You said u dont do sec butyl only iso butyl. Which it has in it. And they r very simular. But ig you wont risk trying something tht others have talked highly about as well. Like i may of said. I have just tried it. But ive read plently of reviews from ppl from long time ago who bought it and were happy nd contuine to buy it. Seems like ur just very quick to x it out. I just want u 2 b happy i hav no stock in vhc. My local sex shop has legit rush and jj nd a few other. We can varify in some formate and ill help u get the isobutyl u deserve. I just picked up a legit bottle can show pics of rush black label 30ml so if you wanted something like tht or another rush or jj. I culd buy it nd ship it 2 u. Theirs ways we can varify im acutally doing it as well. So if i can help u in tht way i will. I agree with professor about golden cock ive seen alot of postive reviews on them nd was gonna buy some of their amyl but didnt hav the right payment method at the time so i went with some where elus. All the while having my sex shop sitting right under my nose. I honestly assumed cuz of my state tht their wuld be no chance they wuld of had them so i never looked. Well i was in the shop one time cuz i was bored nd just browsed around at stuff but i never checked their lower glass counter
-Wenis

Anona Mouse said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 14:00...

This isn't really about "I need product right now!" .. it's more like a rant (ok, more like whining) about the state of the industry (which seems to go through this periodically) and finding which suppliers are trusted by users.
The Chicago outfit may be fine, they just don't have the product I want.
No big deal..
No sex shops around here, old New England puritanical values. But smoke shops will often carry them, alongside the pipes and CBD ointments (that may or may not contain CBD) and refillable torch lighters that will never light again once you do refill them. Keep expecting to see little packages of Spanish Fly for sale.. it's that sketchy.

Nitritespecialist said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 16:47...

The 95% IBN I bought from TCI(Tokyo Chemical) smelled exactly like very sweet nail polish compound. Was this due to some small impurity or is it the true smell of IBN? I don't know for sure, but I do know that when I was making IBN, I experienced a vast array of odors, some pleasant, and some not so pleasant. The sweet nail polish odor is not particularly pleasant and I do NOT remember this being the odor of poppers in 2008-10.,

If the alcohols are not pure enough, it won't matter how much post processing you do(UNLESS you distill), it won't preserve well and it will get foul and acidic, sooner rather than later.

Wenis said on Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 23:54...

Wut is Spanish Fly ?

The Professor said on Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 17:56...

Wenis,
Spanish fly is an old old old type of supposedly sex enhancing drug; it was claimed to make the ladies horny, but it's toxic and say best made them itchy

The Professor said on Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 18:08...

1. If you buy 95% pure alkyl nitrite from any large chemical supplier you are getting a product that was intended for use in diazotonation, NOT a product suitable for human inhalation.

2. 95% sounds great, but with the remaining 5% being un-reacted alcohol, the aroma, to a living creature, will quickly become foul

3. Dobby thought that buying such from a major supplier was the way, not noticing that what he bought was stabilized with Pyridine, and the foul down fish smell eventually is intolerable to a nose.

1. For intentional un-intended use (e.g. a human inhaling it for pleasure) the product needs to be completely free of alcohol; not doing so results in creeping foul odors very quickly.

2. Even then, the normal decomposition cascade results on other types of noxious acids and aldehydes, unless

A. The product is stabilized and preserved.

B. The decomposition cascade is addressed with sinking agents

Wenis said on Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 23:37...

Nitritespecialist no one wants PIN bc its trash and dangerous to use. The Professor lol thts a funny name. Spanish fly... Im thinking of an acutal fly a bug with a sombrow. Lol. But yea i believe tht cuz ill see all the male enhance ment pills guranteed to get you 4 inches bigger etc. Nd those r all proven scam pills. Im surpised they can legally be sold cuz thts false advertize ment. The only ones tht "work" are products tht can increase the blood flow to the penis which might make it look a little bigger than normal wen its hard. But not inches. Even those technics of excersieing ur member to make it grow. Do not work. The only way to acutally englagre or lengthen a penis is done thru surgery. And thts only suggested for guys with micros (under 1.5 inches when fully erect) which their r acutally millions of men in this world who rock a micro. Most report only any good feeling by virbrators. And yes a high percent of them r asians so the sterotype is true in this case. But the penile lengthen surgery has complications which culd result in a non working dick loss of feeling and other issues. Also by extenting it more it makes it easier like if a girl sat down on ur dick while it was hard. 4 it 2 snap. Which can be very painful. The perceder loses duraibilty and stabability nd makes the member more weak. The pervedure only gives the guy between 0.5 inches, worst case nd close to 2 inches best case.. Thts why its only recommend 4 micro men. But some guys who rock a 3 inch may try to get the percedure. Nd it can b performed if a therpist aproves its 4 the right reason. But the risk 4 him to go from 3 in to like 4 in. IS NOT WORTH IT IMO. But it dosent matter to me. Cuz the avg penile erect length in usa is 5.4 inches and im plenty past tht. I just looked into it one time cuz i was bored. Alwats see the adds nd wanted to get to the bottom of it. Yes i kno how to research nd i used mutiple sorces and articles. I always look into differnt things to learn about em -Wenis