Why sulfuric acid is better than HCl for poppers.
Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum
Topic created by Nitritespecialist
on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 13:44
Nitritespecialist said on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 13:44...
An answer from QUORA:
Why can't we use HCl instead of H2SO4 in nitration?
First of all, as Matjaz Mraz has already pointed out, sulfuric acid withdraws water from the reaction and thus helps drive it to completion. And since HCl is normally supplied in aqueous form (31% or so), simply using it as an off-the-shelf product would also mean *starting* with a lot more water, further damaging the equilibrium.
However, just in case you were thinking that you could get around this by using molecular sieves, or some other hygroscopic compound that was otherwise less chemically aggressive than sulfuric acid, along with dry gaseous HCl, there is also a further problem. The nitronium ion that actually reacts to carry out nitrations will also tend to react with the chloride ions that HCl creates:
2NO +2 + 2Cl − → 2NO 2 + Cl 2
…thus damaging your yields.
BrewMeister... said on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 13:51...
@Nitrite...thanks for the post. I was wondering why my sulfuric acid brews were turning out better than when I used HCl. I know battery acid is 65% water, but since I didn't add any other water and since sulfuric acid is a dehydrating agent, I suppose that amount of water was OK. I did read elsewhere that excess water kills esterification so the least amount of water, if any, is likely best.
Anonymous said on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 14:04...
@Nitrite...another reason sulfuric is better is because it's not a gas dissolved in water, so it's not volatile. HCl off gases as soon as you open the lid and is corrosive to everything the gas touches, including eyeballs, throat, metal, concrete, you name it.
PopperExpert said on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 15:42...
Fischer Esterification: Synthesizing Esters from Acids and Alcohols
1) Explain why concentrated H2SO4 (98% solution in water) is a far superior esterification catalyst
compared with concentrated HCl (37% solution in water). Answer: H2SO4 is 96% by weight in
aqueous solution, and HCl is 37% by weight in aqueous solution. Therefore, sulfuric acid has less
water; water would drive the equilibrium towards the reactants. (You can also argue that sulfuric
acid has a higher concentration of H+
and is therefore a more powerful acid catalyst.) Another
reason that sulfuric acid is a better catalyst is that sulfuric acid is dehydrating, or has a great affinity
to water. Since it is a powerful dehydrator which binds water, it drives the equilibrium to the right.
The Professor said on Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 21:13...
Ken's still playing with his imaginary friends
readers that are new to this forum probably haven't experienced the lying, deceitful, willful ignorance that is Ken (aka anonymous, aka popperass, aka madeplentypoppers, aka NitriteSpecialist aka PopperExpert, aka PopperMaker, aka kenjoneslee, aka John Mulligan, etc.
He'll fight his wrong ideas to the ground, hasn't attained control of this reaction 13 years, and is wasting everyone's time.
another big yawn with no new content, a dollop of lies, with a dash of baloney
Those interested in the REAL science can always refer to the wiki, and join PopperMakers (a subreddit) if you need support for it.)
The Professor said on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 00:36...
the HCL vs sulfuric acid debate is old (as in 8+ yrs) news; none of what Ken posted above has any bearing on a preferred implementation, since the HCL is not in contact with either the yield layer or the alcohol layer, the chlorine stays in the waste phase and doesn't interfere with the yield.
HCL is much preferred over sulfuric for many reasons, and ken has addressed NONE of them; complete garbage as usual, and a total waste of time as always
Popperasswipe said on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 14:10...
@Brewmeister.....very interesting reasons why the smart people on Quora .com have explained why sulfuric acid the the better acid when during nitrosation reactions...such as when making poppers or esters. As usual, the Professor debunked it without explaining anything. Just the usual attack dog mode...just like Trump.
The Professor said on Sat, 25 Jun 2022 at 23:35...
Isn't it strange that Ken and his hilarious hallway of psod9b5ms are not only talking to reach other now, but they are STILL frantically ignorant of the science involved?
NITRATIONS (the question answered in the Quora response he uses to promote the superiority of sulfuric acid over HCL) and which results in nitRATes
NITROSATIONS (the reaction that results in poppers (Alkyl nitRITes))
A poor attempt to sound authentic by the tragically un-prepared