Nitrous Acid Degradation
Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum
Topic created by Anonymous
on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 18:31
Anonymous said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 18:31...
"Nitrous acid decomposes into nitric oxide and nitric acid."
"Free nitrous acid is unstable and decomposes rapidly."
These are easy to find quotes in Wikipedia and elsewhere online. Search Engines are wonderful!!!
The Professor said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 18:41...
Starting another thread to continue to argue is a sure sign that someone has run out of ideas Ken.
I know you think that your are either'correcting' e with some text you really don't understand, or are playing 'rope-a-dope' by purposefully mentioning things you've tried before just to waste this forums time.
"nitrous acid decomposes into nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and water: 2 HNO2 → NO2 + NO + H2O.
Not, of exposed to atmospheric oxygen (which is NOT at Alla preferred embodiment), THEN there will be nitric acid evolution.
Only with O2 present, and easily preventable.
The Professor said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 18:49...
The 'Free nitrous acid decomposes readily' statement is with regard to GASEOUS nitrous acid, not nitrous acid IN SOLUTION, which is what we have on this reaction.
Nitrous acid in SOLUTION will also dissipate, but much more slowly.
The pictures in the WWII that show deep royal blue (nitrous acid in SOLUTION) were taken at -12C. That blows away your persistence that maximum concentration is at 0C.
Of that were true, the waste phase in the pics wouldn't be so intense (nitrous acid is blue, more so as concentration on solution increases.
You know, math, again (your nemesis evidently)
So yeah, search engines are a wonderful tool that can make a person SEEM to know what they are doing, UNLESS somebody with comprehension comes along and makes you look like a doll, again
So please, by all means, keep up the ranting
The Professor said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 18:52...
Oh, and congrats again, the first 6 posts now contain 5 repetitive, lie infested garbage ideas from you that COULD have been kept to one post if you cared at all about this forum.
Anonymous said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 21:03...
"In water, it changes quickly into nitric oxide and nitric acid. Forms stable, water-soluble nitrites with Li, Na, K, Ca, Sr, Ba, Ag. Does not form salts with weak polyvalent cations like Al or Be. Forms stable esters with alcohols."
O'Neil, M.J. (ed.). The Merck Index - An Encyclopedia of Chemicals, Drugs, and Biologicals. Whitehouse Station, NJ: Merck and Co., Inc., 2006., p. 1149
The quote is from PubChem and the compound is NITROUS ACID.
Anonymous said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 21:10...
Nitrous acid can only exist at cold temperatures and at low concentrations. It will degrade more quickly as the concentration increases and as the temperature rises.
It must be prepared at the point of use because it is too unstable to store. It will form nitric acid and nitrogen gases in water or air. The longer nitrous acid sits around, even at cold temps, the more likely it will be all degraded. It is that unstable.
Anonymous said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 21:12...
The unstable nitrous acid MUST combine with the alcohol immediately in order to form a more stable ester lest tne nitrous acid degrade into nitrogen gases and nitric acid.
Anonymous said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 21:20...
Hence, there is greater risk to the finished alkyl nitrite(popper) by adding either an excess of SN or acid. An excess of SN will make it more likely that too much nitrous acid will form, more than the alcohol can react with, and therefore, create nitric acid, nitrogen gases and side products that will taint the popper.
An excess of acid will make it more likely that the alkyl nitrite will be subjected to degradation once it has formed due to the excess acid.
And if there is both an excess of acid and an excess of SN, then there will be even greater chance that the crude nitrite product will be tainted with nitric acid, nitrogen dioxide, and various side products.
The BEST way to prevent these contaminants is to simply ADD EXCESS alcohol.
The Professor said on Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 22:14...
Setting aside the despearation of another triple post, ALL of the posts you manipulated or cut-and-pasted are NOT applicable to what is happening INSIDE the reaction vessel of a 'preferred embodiment'
as an aside, if you EVER inhaled nitric acid, you would definitely know it. It is so noxious, and so poisonous (something like a 50PPM LC50) that even a partial inhalation (something like a pint or so) will put you on the ground.
NOT smell nasty or curl up your nose.
In the reqaction vessel, if the stir speed is very slow (no vortex at all, just a gentle circulation) then the entire conversion of HCL and NaNO2 to HNO2 is anerobic.
Thus, the Nitrous acid being developed is at the very bottom of a multi-layer stack of liquids. you can WATCH it blooming out very quickly as it disperses, and if you drop faster than optimal, its concentration will increase.
Lingering Nitrous acid, in solution, and removed from O2 by the layer of alcohol above it, will NOT decompose into nitric acid.
You try to prevent that by spraying Argon into the vessel on high speed stir, and I prevent it from happening at all by using slow stir and anerobic conditions.
The Professor said on Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 00:35...
If anyone is NOT into Kayaking, I highly recommend it; quite a zen thing.
Anyway, now that I'm off the lake, it occurred to me that you slipped another hypocracy in the mix that I failed to nitice.
Your post above (that again pretends to be from university text) states that 'the BEST way to prevent contaminants is to use a large excess of ALCOHOL'
which makes me wonder about your PREVIOUS statement, just weeks ago, that the BEST way to 'force the reaction' to completion was by using excess ACID.
a casual observer notices the hypocrisy; you fought to the ground that excess acid was the holy grail (along with hallucinations as to WHY, and demanding that anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong), but now you fight excess alcohol into the ground as a new holy grail (with another set of demanding that you know what you are doing).
Anonymous said on Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 12:46...
When making alkyl nitrite via the liquid phase method, an equilibrium will be reached whereby all the reactants have not reacted and will therefore be sustained in a state of reversible equilibrium UNLESS one or more of the conditions are changed. Typically, this means adding more of one of the reactants or removing the formed product as it is formed. Deciding which reactant is best to use in excess has more to do with the end goal and how much post processing is necessary.
How will an excess of each reactant alter what's in the pot and what ends up in the crude alkyl nitrite....and how hard will it be to remove any formed contaminants? Ideally, the second any alkyl nitrite molecule is formed, it should be removed from the pot, but in the liquid batch process, this is not possible without distilling straight from the pot during the reaction, which is possible given that alkyl nitrites have a much lower boiling point than the base alcohols. This means they will evaporate first, leaving behind any unreacted alcohol. If the product is removed during the reaction via distillation, the conditions have been changed enough to force the reaction to the right, further to completion to produce yet more alkyl nitrite. In this case, excess reagent is not needed.
However, whenever removing product via distillation during the reaction process is not possible, it is best to add excess alcohol as it will not as likely result in nitrogen gases, side products and nitric acid that will taint the crude popper and even degrade it. It is far better to breathe residual alcohol than toxic nitrogen dioxide, nitric acid and any other toxic by products.
The Professor said on Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 15:22...
Cut-and-paste hasn't served your very well, for about 12 years, and it has failed you again, no surprise.
Since you are determined to believe that the text you read implied SIMULTANEOUS preparation AND distillation, I have a question.
If Alkyl nitrites like to be prepped cold, and raising the temperature lowers the EQ constant (guaranteeing scant yield, how in tarnation can the reaction vessel be simultaneously cold enough to make nitrite AND got enough to distill it?
Either you are entirely misunderstanding everything you read, or your are entirely MAMIPULATING everything you read.
Either way, your ideas are a dangerous waste of time.
The Professor said on Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 15:40...
And since you decided to add in another Lie, I guess I should mention that your text that talks about toxicity carries a message you lost back when you debated toxicity to the ground.
Street samples of puppets always contain a large excess of the patent alcohol.
This is mostly because the poppers gal back into their ingredients as they decompose.
Decomposition is increased greatly with exposure to oxygen.
People that still inhale from y the bottle says destroying their nitrite add they use it.
Poppers in general are marginally toxic, with slight variations by patent alcohol.
The patent alcohol's are also toxic, marginally, and of these the MOST toxic is N-Amyl alcohol.
Out follows that of someone has settled on living amyl alcohol, and wants it to be filled enough to continuously inhale, then they are purposefully deciding to expose themselves to the most toxic pathway.
Hypocrisy seems to be all you can muster lately Ken, don't your hands deserve more than the same old junk; it makes you look lazy as well as proving you don't have a clue.
the toxic substances Ken warns against are all makers problems, and easily avoided without restoring to excess alcohol. Users problems would be the added body load of inhaling toxic parent alcohol