Preferred ratios based on components

Topic created by Mixologist
on Tue, 10 May 2022 at 07:59

Mixologist said on Tue, 10 May 2022 at 07:59...

I will try again......and hopefully avoid all the diatribe that landed on the previous post. I feel it is a pretty straightforward question. BTW, thanks Papa Bear for the previous input. I was hoping for someone with knowledge to do the mol math and help out. Assume 10C or less during the process. Please provide ratios assuming dropping alcohol/acid mix into the nitrite solution.

Please share your idea of the perfect ratio based on this:

IPA 91%
HCL 31.45 (pool acid)
99.5 FG Sod Nitrite

Thanks in advance!!!

The Professor said on Tue, 10 May 2022 at 20:12...

Preferred ratios vary by temperature.

At 10C, the reverse reaction dominates. You can try, and some do, ratios way over 150% acid, trying to get rid of un-reacted alcohol and it won't work.

The thing to do is NOT pick a temperature that suits YOU. Pick one that suits the reaction.

At an appropriate temperature the reverse reaction is incredibly slow, and THEN, minor changes to the ratios will have a chance.

The ratios are equimolar, with a slight (slight meaning about 2-7 percent,) excess of acid and powder.

Something like 1.00:1.05:1.05 alcohol to avoid to powder.

At 10C that's not going to work

The Professor said on Tue, 10 May 2022 at 21:32...

If you are interested, the most recent wiki is at:

https://nublu.maitriworks.org/files/Alky%20Nitrite%20Preparation%20wiki.pdf

If you want support, hoping the Poppermakers subreddit. There are too many false ideas trying to pound their chests here.

Anonymous said on Tue, 10 May 2022 at 23:42...

I recently made a series of one pentanol brews. The only thing I changed was the amount of acid. When I used more acid, I ended up with less of a minty residual alcohol odor and I got the expected gas escaping upon opening. Also got a higher yield...about 90% yield. Also got a crude nitrite, before washing....that was far more transparent.

Less acid ratios: 15 mls one pentanol/ 16 mls 31.45% HCl
11-12 grams SN in 18 mls DW

Doubled amounts except for acid....
30 mls one pentanol/37 mls 31.45% HCl
21-22 grams SN in 36 mls DW

Also, I did NOT chill acid. Acid was roughly 65F as I dripped it on top of reaction mixture. The rest was cold with ice bath.

Interestingly, as I started to add the amount of acid above the equal amount in mls of the alcohol, I started to get bubbles, smoke and ended up with a green,clear top crude nitrite that became more dark yellow. After washing very well, the odor was very very mild and effects are what is expected with no strange effects. It looked as if the additional acid was ruining my batch, but it made it better.

The Professor said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 00:15...

I'm sorry, but the high yield you talk about was infested with alcohol. Something near 10% un-unreacted alcohol if you can smell it at all.

Makers that do the prep that way come to the conclusion that the alcohol's 'freshness' has to be absolutely perfect.

In reality, a nitrosated alcohol bears no resemblance to an alcohol. Un-reacted alcohol that's infested with ketones WILL smell off or sour. That's not the point. The point being that nitrosated alcohol has no such aroma problems, it's a chain of methyl groups that have mattered with nitric oxide.

It's absolutely impossible to remove un-reacted ingredients when doing a prep at a temperature that is making more ingredients than products.

The only thing that happens is more and more salt is being produced as more and more acid is consumed.

OP can belief in bigfoot and try to shoehorn rotten ideas into an inappropriate situation, but there are better results that come from making under better conditions.

Mix said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 00:33...

Great info, thanks!

Anonymous said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 13:32...

Here's the scenario with the Professor and why he can't make any headway.

10 years ago he spent 6 months trying to make poppers. After 6 months, he assumed he had figured out the single best way to make poppers and he's been stuck there ever since. He has invested every fiber of his being in being "right" that he completely ignores all information that might demonstrate there could be better ratios/methods.

My normal amyl nitrite is absolutely EXCELLENT. The one using more acid has a slight citrus/lime odor that the others using less acid did not. They smelled much more like the base alcohol. That's the evidence here on this side of reality.

Anonymous said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 13:36...

I'm also leaning back towards the Joe Miller making normal amyl nitrite towards the end of his life. The NAN I'm making is just so much better in terms of odor and effects than all others I've tried. And it reminds me of what I had been buying....nondescript mild odor....nothing very memorable....and zero toxic or weird effects.....just pure fun. Isobutyl, butyl and isopropyl have much stronger more memorable odors....especially as they degrade. Isopentyl nitrite degrades into a stinky, funky scent.

Anonymous said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 13:39...

Also, NAN builds. I remember that about OTC poppers in 2008. The more you hit them, the crazier the mental effects. And you could hold them to your nose for extended periods without any sense of toxic effects setting in. With IPN, IBN and BN, they are too strong to do that.

The Professor said on Wed, 11 May 2022 at 17:59...

Back with the ad hominem attacks, eh? Last bastion of the uninformed.

The living embodiment of " we mock what we don't understand " speaks.

when asked a question about making with isoPropyl he starts blathering about his successful runs of n-Amyl

He's found himself in a situation where a 72% reactive product is bringing his engine to redline, and he wants to advise people on how to make clean product.

It never was about you, Ken. It was about the truth. Yes, I attained reaction control in weeks and you are floundering and babbling and cursing after 12 years.

That's the choice you present every time you speak, and it migrates makers away from you and toward reality.

Thanks for that; you've saved more makers than I know with your nonsense.

Anonymous said on Mon, 16 May 2022 at 12:18...

Just had a morning session with my week old NAN.....was worried it might not deliver, but it did. Very good....no odor....just slightly aromatic and clean. No acid. Just a mild feel good effect.

So....if it smells good after a week and has ample good effects....the REACTION most likely was a success.

I stored in the frig at 40F with a few MS4 beads and a thin layer of Kcarb on the bottle of each bottle.

The Professor said on Wed, 18 May 2022 at 17:23...

N-Wmyl had an eq constant of 2.6 at room temperature. that's much easier to make Alkyl nitrites with than isopropyl.

Because isopropyl activity is much higher than it's decomposition barrier, it will degrade faster.

One week of n-Amyl isn't going to degrade very much, particularly with sieves and K-carb stabilizers.

8 don't get what you're bragging about; n-Amyl is what you settled on as the nitrite you can make semi decent batches of.

Too bad the weakest nitrite is all you can make, but good fortune that you're health is so low that even n-Amyl brings your pulseox into the low 90's% or lower.

Good job Ken; you are back where you started 12 years ago.