Home Brew Isopropyl Nitrite

Topic created by Anonymous
on Fri, 25 Mar 2022 at 18:55

Anonymous said on Fri, 25 Mar 2022 at 18:55...

I have made many brews of IPN and they have all given me immediate bad side effects, like fatigue and plunging blood pressure that won't rebound. Just horrible side effects. Now I have come to believe that these effects were due to impurities. I have now made 3 successive IPN brews that are nothing but fun and giving no side effects.

You need high quality alcohol. I used 91% Equate IPA from Walmart with expiration date of 2025. You need to use excess acid. I used Sunnyside from Menards. You need sodium nitrite. I used Duda Food Grade SN.

You need warmer temps. You will get ZERO yield when making IPN if you go much lower than 32F. And whatever yield you get will have toxic impurities. You cannot use dry ice or super cold temps when making IPN. You won't get a yield.

The crude harvest will be very clear, light yellow and well separated from the water. It will remain well separated during the cold water rinses. It will remain separated during the brine/baking soda cold water washes. It will remain clear after adding potassium carbonate as a preservative....even with shaking. It will be VERY VERY volatile and constantly make a hissing sound upon opening the cap. It will have no unpleasant odor. It will be very VERY fun and potent. The only side effect I had was a bit of shakiness, which wore off in 5 to 10 minutes.

40 mls 31.45% HCl added to 30-31 mls of 91% IPA. Chill but do NOT freeze.

22 grams SN added to 36 mls DW. Chill but do NOT freeze.

Use ice bath and add the acid/alcohol to the SN solution on moderate to high stir.

Billy said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 08:47...

Have you thought of taking up a less harmful hobby, for example hiking?

Jimmy said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 13:08...

It's got nothing to do with impurities. Are you telling me every single bottle of IPN I have bought is impure? The nasty after effects are very consistent ie low blood pressure, fatigue and blurred vision. Whatever you're concocting in that lab of yours isn't IPN.

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 14:36...

@Jimmy...I am telling you what I have experienced and what I have done. And yes, I have compelling evidence that the immediate side effects, such as staggering drunkenness, visual disturbances, low blood pressure, etc. were due to impurities. It's true of the other alkyl nitrites as well. When they give immediate bad effects, within 15 minutes of use, it's due to impurities, in most cases.

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 14:47...

In respect of all phases of the physiological action, the secondary and tertiary
nitrites are more active than the corresponding primary compounds. This is to
be chiefly attributed, not to the direct physiological effect of the secondary and
tertiary groups, but to the great facility with which these compounds suffer
decomposition.
In respect of the acceleration of the pulse, the power of the nitrites varies
directly as their molecular weights, and they therefore fall into an order identical
with that of the homologous series. This same relationship, increase of activity
corresponding with rise in molecular weight, may also be traced, though less uniformly, in their power of reducing blood pressure and of inducing muscular contraction.
This order appears to be the result, not so much of the direct influence of the
substituted methyl groups, as of the increased chemical instability which their
substitution confers on the higher members of the series.
In respect of the duration of subnormal pressure, as well as of the rapidity
with which muscular contraction ensues, the activity of the nitrites is expressed
by an order which is for the most part the reverse of that presenting their power
in accelerating the pulse, reducing blood-pressure, and contracting muscular fibre,
this order being in general contrary to that of the homologous series. In these
respects the more volatile nitrites of low molecular weight, and containing,
therefore, relatively more nitroxyl, are the most active. It is probable that these
simple nitrites more readily attach themselves to constituents of blood and
muscle, and thus act more quickly than the higher compounds in inducing muscular contraction, whilst their greater stability causes their effect, i. e., reduction
of blood-pressure, to endure for a greater length of time than that of the higher
and more easily decomposed bodies.”
Besides the effect of these homologous nitrites, which is quite similar to that
of amyl nitrite, we have that of numerous oxidation products. Thus we may
find valerianic aldehyde, valerianic acid, amyl valerianate, nitropentane and unknown products which have the power even in minute quantity of producing violent and lasting headache. We shall also show later that pyridine nitrate is produced by the nitrous acid process and its presence may be expected. This makes
it probable that the unknown bodies mentioned above may be pyridine derivatives. Hydrocyanic acid is mentioned by some, while others report that they are
unable to find it. While we have made no extended examination for HCN, we
have found no reason for concluding it was present in amyl nitrite of the nitrous
acid process. Considering the poisonous properties of the pyridine compounds
however, it is obvious that crudely prepared amyl nitrite may be extremely
deleterious.

These findings are from 1914. The Chemists are saying that there are impurties in alkyl nitrites that cause side effects. They say certain alkyl nitrites are more apt to degrade, imparting unwanted impurities that worsen effects. They have known this for over 100 years.

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 14:52...

These chemists also stressed that the purity of the alcohol was crucially important to obtaining a highly pure alkyl nitrite that didn't require distillation. Not only could the reagent alcohol contain various alcohols, such as amyl, isobutyl and propyl, but it could also have other compounds that interfere with making a pure nitrite.

Jimmy said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 14:55...

Are you are suggesting that all over the counter poppers contain impurities?

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 15:14...

I am saying if there are immediate bad effects, that a person normally never experiences, then yes....the bottle has deleterious impurities.

Almost all OTC poppers will have impurities, since they are typically NOT greater than 99% pure. The older they are, the greater the percentage of impurity becomes, since they are not indefinitely stable products, even when stored properly in a sealed container.

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 15:20...

Regarding IPN: I was almost 100% certain that IPN was inherently bad....in that it caused immediate wretched side effects each and every time. Staggering drunkenness, visual disturbances, low blood pressure, fatigue, tight chest, difficulty breathing....and I could NOT believe it was legal in the UK and likely the dominant form of popper.

BUT now I have compelling evidence that these bad effects are due mostly to impurities and presumably those who are making IPN in the UK are making a product that does NOT have all the side effects my home brew had....because I cannot believe anyone would continue whiffing such a product.

jimmy said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 15:37...

All UK poppers are IPN, the EU banned iso butyl nitrite in 2007. I did read somewhere that UK poppers are 95% IPN ?

Anonymous said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 17:30...

If UK's poppers are 95% IPN then they will be EXTREMELY volatile the entire time they are being used and a 10ml vial being used will evaporate probably within 24 hours, maybe less depending upon how often it is opened.

Jimmy said on Sat, 26 Mar 2022 at 18:59...

Thanks, this explains a lot !!!

kens-anus said on Sun, 27 Mar 2022 at 21:22...

back to spouting BS from last century that is no longer valid, again, I see.

Wine DOES oxidize
Alcohols CAN oxidize. That doesn't mean that they will, magically, in a bottle, in your refrigerator.

"Alcohols CAN be oxidized to give ketones, aldehydes, and carboxylic acids. Secondary alcohols are oxidized without breaking carbon-carbon bonds ONLY as far as the ketone stage. No further oxidation is seen except under very stringent conditions. Tertiary alcohols cannot be oxidized at all without breaking carbon-carbon bonds.".....

TL;DR

during the drop wise liquid phase alkyl nitrite preparation, in the21st century, reactants are available at suitable purity to achieve at least a 95% pure product. NO out of the ordinary or drastic storage measures are needed to keep the reactants pure.

The alcohol will slowly (as in years) become more dilute as it attracts atmospheric water vapor with each use). dilution leads to a slight decrease in pH, that is inconsequential to the yield.

Hydrochloric acid in a high molar concentration is also incredibly stable.

Distilled water is very inexpensive.

NaNO2 is much more stable than you claim; if properly stored.

One can
1. know what they are doing, and prep to their heart's content
or
2. have a middling understanding of what's going on, and become convinced that the only way to get good results is by purchasing new reactants with each batch.

Guttrunks said on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 12:36...

spouting BS from last century

The learning of our ancestors should not be so easily dismissed! I myself have studied the ancient discipline of Gastromancy; I am seeking funding for a scholarly visit to The Library of Ashurbanipal.

Anonymous said on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:45...

The Professor has NO clue what the purity is of the second hand alcohol he buys from PA . He also has no idea how old it is or how long it's been stored and under what conditions.

Primary alcohols, n-butyl and n-amyl, the best alcohols for making poppers, DO oxidize to ketones, aldehydes and acids. Isobutyl alcohol DOES oxidize to ketones which is an IMPURITY you do not want in a very pure alcohol.

None of the Professor's BS changes the fact that reagent quality matters. And yet he only rebuttal is to TRUST every source as being as pure as it gets, no matter what...just practice blind faith. Total BS!!

Anonymous said on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 19:47...

One of the major reasons popper quality is so inconsistent from virtually every source is REAGENT QUALITY varies from maker to maker and from one batch to the next.

kens-anus said on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 21:16...

yelling louder won't make any of your nonsense less BS there ace

Anonymous said on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 00:53...

TI/E-CPI 1002e August 2020 Page 2 of 2 n-Pentanol
BASF SE – Industrial Petrochemicals Europe
E-CPI/M – H201
67056 Ludwigshafen, Germany
Visit us online at http://www.solvents.basf.com
Storage & Handling n-Pentanol should be stored under nitrogen. The storage temperature must not
exceed 40 °C and moisture are excluded. Under these conditions, a storage
stability of 12 months can be expected.
Safety When using this product, the information and advice given in our Safety Data
Sheet should be observed. Due attention should also be given to the
precautions necessary for handling chemicals.
Note
The data contained in this Technical Information is based on our current
knowledge and experience as well as our investigations according to the
today's state-of-the-art. In view of the many factors that may affect processing
and application of the Product, these data do not relieve processors from
carrying out their own investigations and tests; neither do these data imply
any guarantee of certain properties, nor the suitability of the Product for
specific purpose. No liability of BASF can be derived therefrom. It is the
responsibility of the recipient of the Product to ensure that any proprietary
rights and existing laws and legislation are observed.
August 2020

The largest chemical dealer in Germany says to store one pentanol under nitrogen and keep from moisture. If this is done, it's good for one year. Hmmmmmm....Date 2020.

Anonymous said on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 00:57...

Tom the know it all chemist con man will figure out how to twist the advice of BASF when it comes to proper storage of one-pentanol. Oh....yes...they just say that cause.....they want to be extra EXTRA cautious, but that in reality, the stuff can be stored uncapped for months, if not years in a tropical environment.

Anonymous said on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 17:23...

WOW.....my 4th brew of IPN has turned out extremely well. It's two days old and is delivering very good effects/odor without any toxic side effects.

It's easy to make, but I must warn everyone...that if you use low quality reagents/and or wrong ratios and temps...you WILL get very toxic impurities that make you feel like crap.

But otherwise, it's cheap and easy....

use a 3 to 4 ratio of 91% IPA to 31.45% HCl....that's 3 parts alcohol to 4 parts acid.....mixing the acid into the alcohol.

roughly 12 grams SN per 15-16mls alcohol. or 3 parts SN to 4 parts alcohol.

roughly a 40% solution of SN....or 4 parts SN to 6 parts DW.

Temps 32F to 45F...perhaps as high as 50F. BUT DO NOT use subzero temps....you will GET scant yield with toxic impurities.

kena-anus said on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 18:46...

anonymous thunked

"Tom the know it all chemist con man will figure out how to twist the advice of BASF when it comes to proper storage of one-pentanol. Oh....yes...they just say that cause.....they want to be extra EXTRA cautious, but that in reality, the stuff can be stored uncapped for months, if not years in a tropical environment."

Seems like, although you are, once again, promoting a blatant lie to cover for your inadequate advice. At least you do remember the truth, from the last time you tried this gem. The manufacturer of a 50 gallon drum of solvent X will NOT specify an expiry date; they will provide an interval (in the calibration world it's usually 30 days, 90, 120, 180, yearly or bi-yearly) upon which to re-check your stock.

One of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in my career was working for a national lab. as a newbie, I got the 'grunt' work of maintaining our bench stock reactants. Any alcohol was tested at two year intervals for bench stock.

Some procedures require in situ preps of reactants, but the standard bench stock containers were checked every two years.

Some procedures required storing ethanol (for example) under nitrogen and in a stoppered container that was never opened Only the stray atoms of O2 that make it through the glass can enter, no evaporation (reduction) of product or atmospheric water condensation (dilution).

For the most part it was found that bench stock alcohols stay viable for at least 5 years without heroic preservation measures.

That's a far cry from your claims, which take a kernel of truth and blow it into a lie to fit your ASSumptions.

the telling part is that you know this, it was discussed years ago, and you only bring it up again because you have a new audience to swindle.

Anonymous said on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 23:11...

OK....Mr. Professor is saying based on his practical experience that BASF's recommendations for one pentanol in particular.....the alcohol used to make the best amyl nitrite.....is NOT VALID. His experience trumps their experience. We should have 5 years worth of high quality pentanol regardless of how often the container is opened and despite the fact we need the highest purity to make a "drug" that people are going to inhale.

krns-anus said on Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 16:46...

putting words in my mouth has never worked; you think it will this time because?

straw man fallacy has been your go to fallacy; you're not arguing with me anymore, you are arguing against reality. I informed you about how the global calibration reference standards schema works and you claim it's BS.

There's no place in the conscious world for such blather