Molecular sieves

Topic created by Charlie
on Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 22:14

Charlie said on Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 22:14...

Starting a new thread since my last post was around a month ago.

At the time, I was wondering if the Loudwolf 4A molecular sieves were viable. I got around to testing them today in my hand with a few drops of water. Indeed, they burned my fingers so it seems they are viable. They got !extremely! hot - more so than expected.

A short update on my 3rd batch:
http://poppersguide.com/forum/11784

I bottled it after the 4th day. I added 3 g. baking soda and 1 tsp. activated alumina to each 30 mL bottle. The first bottle, which I opened frequently, became unpleasant after about 2 weeks. I recently opened a bottle which had sat in the fridge unopened and it doesn't have any unpleasant odor. Very large bubbles surfaced when the bottle was opened. Both bottles have decreased psychoactive effect, but retain the smooth muscle relaxing effect. At this point, they really have no psychoactive effects except for maybe the first few seconds of the first whiff, when there is also a feeling of a warm chest.

Will post again shortly after everything arrives for my fourth attempt. I will be attempting a half-batch this time and have larger 25mm borosilicate dropping tubes. Will also use different sodium nitrite to determine if that changes anything in the final product.

The Professor said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 17:22...

I'm glad the loudwolf sieves were as advertised.

I'm not sure what you're of effects you are expecting, but alkyl nitrites aren't by themselves psychoactive (in the sense that a chemical that crosses the blood brain barrier and directly modifies brain activity).

Alkyl nitrites don't do that, they make use of the vasodilation mechanism that already exists in your body. Blood vessels increase in size, and the heart rate increases to accommodate). Some of those blood vessels are on the brain, and changing blood flow to the brain indirectly changes the brain's functioning.

If the experience is that of pure alkyl nitrite, your head and neck will flush, the increase in heart rate is only enough to accommodate the increase in blood vessel diameter (no distress) and THEN may come the thoughts of high interest.

If the nitrite has nitRATe in our, your heart rate will increase dangerously, you blood pressure will fall out from under you, you'll feel lethargic and weak, and the only thoughts then will be worry, maybe panic, but nothing pleasant.

Charlie said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 20:05...

TY Prof.

By "psychoactive," I was referring to those mental effects, especially euphoria/trance-like or that "out of body experience," that I guess I came to expect from what I considered good poppers in the past. The latest batch definitely has excellent muscle-relaxing effects, but it seems any mental effects that I initially experienced have decreased over the past month. Now, I am questioning whether the initial mental effects were attributed to the nitrite itself or maybe impurities such as nitrate or acid.

I am slightly suspicious that my latest nitrite does have some nitrate or maybe even still some residual acid. I suspect some acid only because it has left the plastic centrifuge tube used as a dosing device with a red hue over the past couple of weeks. Does this suggest anything to you?

If there is nitrate, it is not loaded with nitrate, but it could have been that the sodium nitrite had degraded somewhat to start with. In order to refine my apparatus and learn the process, I was not using the very finest sodium nitrite, which I reserved to use once I had a better handle on everything. For this reason, I am curious to try a completely different sodium nitrite and see if the yield improves - or not!

Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 20:58...

@Charlie....poppers definitely can and do have mental effects. I don't think anyone understands how exactly aside from the sudden increase in blood flow to the brain. I could stand on my head however and never experience euphoria or a burst of animal lust so I think it's more than just a change in blood flow.

From all the thousands of brews I made, only a few had stand out mental effects. One butyl brew turned me into an aggressive bottom barking orders. It was striking so I remembered it. Another blended brew made me feel like I entered a whole different zone of surreal awareness that was very pleasant and made me want sex 10 times more. I never take other drugs or alcohol...so this was purely due to what was in the home brew bottle.

Joe's poppers definitely had mental effects...the last ones I tried in LA in 2010 gave me a dreamy, pleasant effect that put me in the sex zone. I distinctly remember this effect because it was the first time I was in LA in the sex club. I was alone when I tested for this effect and it totally changed my willingness to go out and get into the scene.

Those who say there are no mental effects are using subpar poppers....plain and simple.

Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 21:08...

@Charlie...my speculation has always been that the best popper effects(including mental) are totally dependent upon both the type of nitrite and its exact chemical purity/composition. Since I don't have a GC analyzer in my bedroom, I couldn't figure it out.

I think acid and water are two impurities that will likely always have a negative effect on the popper experience even if the type of nitrite is correct. Really, the best way to get at the bottom of it without an analyzer is to do a fractional distillation...and compare those products to product the same brews that have not be distilled.

The Professor said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 21:46...

Most plastics will either yellow or redden upon exposure to acid. It's like making bar soap in that respect; acid is an ingredient on the preparation, but shouldn't be present in the yield. Neutralization should eliminate the acid from prep, and either k-carb (for a sealed or sparingly opened bottle) will prevent further acids. If the bottle is opened frequently, then baking soda should keep it smooth.

You mentioned them getting acrid after a couple of weeks. Personally, I only dose from 2 steam coals, and once opened, I use them that season. If you plan to size from the same bottle, is suggest starting at about 10% w/v baking soda. If that's not enough, add more, until a bottle stays smooth for the duration of it's life.

If the inhalation is smooth, and there's nothing alarming happening, THAT's when the effects will be considered pleasant by your brain.

Any euphoria and desire will evolve from there, but there's no ingredient in them that forces one to suddenly become filled with lust, that comes with a clean, easily inhaled nitrite that smells like 'more'.

Charlie said on Tue, 30 Nov 2021 at 22:58...

TY Nitritespecialist & Prof.

A couple things to footnote...

I believe I need to neutralize the yield further immediately after preparation. It's possible that I have too much acid left in the yield that the 10% in the bottle is not enough to compensate. I have noticed that it has seemed to clump in the bottle over time. I plan to also experiment next time with one bottle on Kcarb and the other on baking soda.

I'm very anxious to shortly see if different sodium nitrite combined with a slightly improved process/apparatus and longer neutralization will change the outcome. Will update those results in a new thread afterward.

Cornholio said on Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 17:42...

Just a quick question on this topic. Looking to get hold of some molecular sieve to attempt to prolong the life of my bottles. I’ve found some intended for double glazing to keep the air in the panels dry. It’s super cheap, is it a bad idea to use this for poppers?

Charlie said on Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 20:15...

@Cornholio

I am not an expert. Others can offer more experienced advice. However, there are several threads on here that go into more depth about molecular sieves because I had some of the same questions. From what has been mentioned before, inexpensive sieves will have to most likely be activated. There are methods that have been discussed about ways to do that, but they seem like more work than they're worth to me. I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Loudwolf 4A sieves seem to be viable from the basic experiment I did with them and you can purchase small quantities for little money.

Cornholio said on Thu, 2 Dec 2021 at 08:30...

Thanks Charlie, you pretty much confirmed what I thought would be the answer. I’m in the UK so Loudwolf is not really an option but I will keep looking.

Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 at 16:25...

@Charlie....I know you are hell bent on trying to make decent, consistent poppers. I hope you succeed, but I think it will be very difficult without being able to test for composition.

In any case, another reason I became frustrated with home brew was because of the variation in effects from one brew to the next. Some effects were OK, but a bit weird, while others seemed more like the expected effects...and of course there were some side effects, mostly with the butyls and isopropyls. It was just maddening to not know what effects were due to greater impurity or greater purity.

With the LRM poppers...so far....I haven't experienced any noteworthy side effects....and the other effects all seem pretty consistent with nothing seeming weird. So it's probably safe to assume that whatever they are doing is more right than wrong.

Charlie said on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 at 19:34...

@Nitrite, Hell bent is probably actually correct, lol. I hope I succeed too, but I know the process is fraught. At this point, I will be happy learning what I have even if I don't succeed in making a reliable yield. I'm only beginning the fourth attempt in my life, so I agree that it's very possible that I could reach similar conclusions in the end after many batches. I hope to get some tested once I reach a point where I think it would be worth it so that I know where improvements could be made and go from there.

Charlie said on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 at 23:59...

It's very interesting... I opened up some different, more expensive ACS-grade sodium nitrite for the first time and it looks different than the previous less-expensive ACS-grade I had been learning with. The more expensive is fluffier and less granular - color is also slightly more yellow.

I am anxious to see how changing this one input affects the final yield. I am also trying a half-mol batch for the first time.