Atypical types of nitrites

Topic created by Father
on Thu, 7 Jul 2022 at 20:36

Father said on Thu, 7 Jul 2022 at 20:36...

Nitrite produced from alcohol such as methanol, ethanol, heptanol e.t.c methyl nitrite, ethyl nitrite, heptyl nitrite They are suitable for inhalation and has anyone tested them for the same use as pentyl, isoamyl, hexyl, butyl, propyl?

What other types of alcohols can be used to make nitrites?

Anonymous said on Thu, 7 Jul 2022 at 20:57...

No they are not.

Father said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 12:31...

Are they too explosive?

The Professor said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 17:48...

Father,
The reactivity of a popper follows it's vapor pressure.

Popper vapor pressure increases as methyl groups in the molecule decrease.

The usual suspects have for our five methyl groups

Hexyl=6
Pentyl=5
Butyl=4

More than 6 is extremely weak, (photonic=8 for example) and mostly used in perfumes.

Anything less than 4 (propyl=3, ethyl=2, methyl=1) is more reactive than the active ingredient and not really suitable for a human metabolism.

I hope that makes sense

The Professor said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 17:49...

Typos octonol=8

Father said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 18:00...

Ok thanks for the answer. It turns out propyl is more volatile and reactive than butyl
How many molecules does isoamyl have?

The Professor said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 18:59...

Father,

Pentyl alcohol has 5 methyl groups and it's alias is normal Amyl
IsoPentyl is an isomer of Pentyl (same components arranged in a different order) and also has 5 (as does sec-Pentyl (another isomer)

Amyl(Pentyl) is a bit weird, in that there are 8 isomers of Pentanol. Baqck when they were developing a product to relieve angina, they nitrosated a mixture of Amyl (Pentyl) isomers called Fusel oil (a by-product of distillation of ethanol). None of these isomers of Amyl alcohol had been isolated and synthesized yet, so Fusel oil was the only source (today all 8 isomers are available separately, but they are more expensive to synthesize (as Mobil1 is more expensive than petroleum based oil)

That product was called Amyl nitrite (even though it was a mix of Amyl isomers.

If you are into motorsport, an isomer of a molecule has the same components, but they are arranged differently; it's a bit similar to positioning of a turbo to minimize lag; same gear, slightly different performance.

n-Amyl is 72% reactive
isoAmyl=75%
n-butyl 81.0%
isobutyl 91.0%
sec-butyl 93.7%
tert-butyl 98.6%
100% Nitric oxide (active ingredient in poppers) 100.0%
n-propyl 104.0%
isopropyl 116.0%
ethyl 162.0%

Father said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 19:17...

Awesome Thanks for the clarification and information
So all of the above nitrites except the last one (ethyl) are used in poppers?

The Professor said on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 at 20:08...

Well, there's CAN be, and there's ARE

All I listed CAN be nitrosated, I don't know of any OTC product on a large scale that uses secondary alcohols or even tertiary (like sec-butyl or tert-Butyl; mass producers seem to have skipped straight to isoPropyl because it is cheap.

tert-Butyl makes an extremely potent popper, about the highest reactivity a very fit human can handle, but you don't see it very often.

Ethyl and methyl nitrites are so over-the-top in reactivity that they are very dangerous to a living creature

Peter said on Sat, 9 Jul 2022 at 05:54...

@ The Professor: Thank you very much for your very informative and detailed response to Father. The Reactive Percentage Rating information you provided is extremely useful to help popper users on this forum intelligently decide which chemical they might be most comfortable in using, relative to their age and condition of health. It would seem that any popper user who values their health should NOT be using: Nitric Oxide, N- Propyl, Iso-Propyl, or Ethyl. Thanks again !!

Father said on Sat, 9 Jul 2022 at 08:57...

Thanks for the detailed information Professor.
It turns out that isopropyl is more reactive than isobutyl and therefore more powerful and dangerous?
Isoamyl it is isopentyl?
isoamyl it is pentyl isomer?
When on the product is e.g. "mixed isomers cas 110-46-3, cas 123-51-3" Is it about mixing alcohol with nitrite or could there be other nitrites not listed as well?

The Professor said on Sat, 9 Jul 2022 at 17:05...

Peter,
I agree, and it's just another indication that manufacturers value profit over the health of their customers.

Father,
Yes, here's a snippet of our wiki that I hope explains things. Also, Amyl is distorted slang Latin for "of meal", Amyl alcohol was originally sourced from distillation products from grain alcohol, grain coming from the mill. Milled grain being a meal.

The official designation changed to Pentyl from Amyl to be more descriptive (Pentyl meaning 5, and Pentanol has 5 methyl groups. So Amyl and Pentyl are the same

"Types of Alkyl nitrite; what's the difference?

ALL alkyl nitrites share a common active ingredient, Nitric Oxide (NO). The molecule in the link is Isoamyl nitrite, for
example. The oxygen-nitrogen-oxygen atoms to the right (the red-blue-red balls) is Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2), which on
its own is a highly toxic gas. The entire molecule has a body (the carrier alcohol), a 'neck' (the first oxygen binding to the
alcohol) and a 'head' the NO payload.

Nitric Oxide is the active part, but on its own it metabolizes in seconds, so little-to-no lasting effects, and reactions with
environmental oxygen convert to Nitric acid, which corrodes human tissue.

What NO needs is a delivery vehicle, to get the NO into the bloodstream, where it can then do its thing (Endothelial NO
(ENO) allows the human bloodstream to dilate in accommodation to blood flow just as pupils dilate in accommodation
to light).

This delivery vehicle is the alcohol body and neck of the molecule; once in the bloodstream, the head goes to town, and
the body and neck get pissed away.

The difference between the various nitrites is in their rate of delivery of NO. The actual alcohols are only going to be
present in parts per million in your blood.

The nitrites with lower vapor pressures have a slower onset, lower high and longer duration, while the more volatile
nitrites have a faster onset, higher high and shorter duration.
That is the fundamental difference between all alkyl nitrites, but production factors intervene to mess things up quite a
bit.

For example, the lower nitrites tend to have the least 'bad' side effects; mostly because they tend to be more pure, and
because they are easier to make. The higher nitrites tend to have more impurities and to deliver NO at faster rates;
impurities compound because making them more pure requires more effort than most producers put into the endeavor.
"

This clip doesn't show an image, but here's one of isoAmyl nitrite

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Amyl-nitrite-3D-balls.png/800px-Amyl-nitrite-3D-balls.png

Father said on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 07:37...

Thank you again for the information
I thought the human body converts nitrite into nitric oxide (NO) or nitrites metabolized to (NO) nitric oxide? and it is not in the nitrite itself.
Storing nitrites at minus temperature is good or is it better to store them at temperatures up to max 5-10 °C?

Father said on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 07:42...

Edit "or nitrites are metabolized to (NO) nitric oxide"
Spelling mistake above*

The Professor said on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 16:57...

Father, yes, that is the activity that I was trying to describe with that section of our wiki. All Alkyl nitrites have an O-N-O fragment. One oxygen is bonded to the methyl groups (the transporter), and the remaining nitrogen and oxygen compare a nitric oxide molecule attached to the methyl groups.

After being inhaled, the N-O falls off from the methyl groups.... The methyl groups are now waste, and they have delivered nitric oxide (NO, the active ingredient) into your bloodstream to do its thing.

Storing:. If you have an industrial freezer (one that doesn't auto defrost) then the colder the better, but residential freezers auto defrost, and it isn't good for nitrite to be worked back and forth.

A refrigerator should work fine too store for months, just let it get back to room temp before opening, or atmospheric water vapor will condense on the bottle, and water ruins poppers.

Have you seen our wiki? It's mostly for makers, but it has a FAQ section

https://nublu.maitriworks.org/files/Alky%20Nitrite%20Preparation%20wiki.pdf

Father said on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 23:00...

Haven't seen it yet but I'll check this file. Thank you!

Anon said on Fri, 9 Jun 2023 at 17:36...

Has anyone thought about inhaling straight up diluted NO2? I have thought of it and I am betting that punchy first hit from a bottle is just that.