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Keeping'em Fresh

Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum

Topic created by PK
on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 13:45

PK said on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 13:45...

Hi!
Me and my partner love using our poppers. But we have noticed recently they're not staying 'fresh' for long. We are careful when we take off the lid before we huff and we store them in a cool dark place. But after 1/2 sessions the impact has vanished, but there is still LOADS of liquid in the bottle.
We've even bought some aroma topper flip caps. But you don't get a decent hit with these and end up removing the lid! We are using good brands (pricey!) Rock Hard XXX Pentyl and Blue Boy Pentyl.
Putting them in the fridge doesn't work. Heating the bottle over a candle doesn't work. ANY advice would be fabulous!!

Dutchdude said on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 13:57...

Using an inhaler is the best option. You then open the poppers bottle only once per session and they stay fresh so much longer.

Nitritespecialist said on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 14:03...

If a popper is sufficiently pure, it's life can be extended by the addition of anhydrous potassium or sodium carbonate. These presumably act as acid sinks. The addition of driers such as activated alumina may also help. You can also pour off 30 mls poppers into 10mls bottles and place them in the frig. You wouldn't want to expose your opened poppers to high humidity environments, since moisture degrades them.

All of these techniques should work IF your poppers are sufficiently pure. It's also noteworthy that isopropyl nitrite is very volatile, feels cold to the touch like acetone, and will evaporate quickly. N-butyl and isobutyl are not as volatile as IPN, but will still evaporate more quickly than the amyl/pentyl group, which has the potential to last the longest.

The Dreadful Flying Glove said on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 14:50...

those are 30ml or 10ml bottles you are talking about, PK?

PK said on Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 16:14...

They are 15ml bottles Glove

The Dreadful Flying Glove said on Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 17:22...

Best to go with 10ml, keep them in a cool, dark, non-moist, place. Fridges are moist, aside from obvious peril. Once seal is broken they start to degrade, so 10ml is optimum.

I wouldn't heat poppers if I were you, please don't, bro. Don't decant poppers, that's not a good idea. As for adding stuff....no idea...but it sounds like a big hassle to me.

Maybe you got "end of the batch" bottles that have been hanging around in a storehouse for some time. Poppers and summer are not good friends :-)

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 23:47...

Alky nitrite vapes are heavier than air. I leave the cover off mine for a few mins and never immediately cap after use since that will trap air. Not sure why this isn't common sense. Use the heavier then air vapes to displace the humidity ladden air full of oxygen. If you continuously cap all you do is trap the moisture and the oxygen in there. When you first open a bottle it is packed with semi inert gas. Thus is also why those first hits suck aka not potent. Also why a bottle is always hotter after recapping and coming back to it after some time. No inert gas and the trapped air started to spoil the sauce and some peeps actually like the lethargic effects. Ultra pure sauce sucks for this reason as well.

I do advise to pipette out a few millis into an empty clean bottle 1oz min, while a 4 oz is optimum. Nothing else in the bottle. Dont shake but roll the sauce around on the sides gently. Enjoy, use you hand to add a bit of heat as needed. Don't cap or hold a thumb on it. When done give it a few mins to just sit to build up vapes to displace the air. While there is sauce in there you can come back to it a day or more later. If you have some molecular sieves add some but just enough to keep the few millis of sauce wet.

The Professor said on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 at 18:45...

Alkyl nitrites degrade by exposure to heat, oxygen and water; they also fall apart (back into their original reactants).

The Master's advice above would lessen the amount of Oxygen by displacing it with vapor in the headspace of the bottle, but that headspace would NOW contain alkyl nitrite vapors; it's the vapors that start the entire degradation cascade

https://imgur.com/gallery/CgyUY4L

so that technique will accelerate decomposition, not slow it down.

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 at 21:33...

@professor Popper's Problem - wrong wrong wrong. Either way you are a waste of time since all you ever look for is someone to pick a fight with. Go choke your chicken instead it will be more fun!

The Professor said on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 at 21:47...

I don't argue for sport; I supply DATA to those interested.

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 00:12...

Misconstructions are all you supply. You are sitting there purporting that vapors of the source will decompose the source more so than oxygen which is one of the major decomposition factors. Look at what you wrote: exposure to heat, OXYGEN and water. Where is vapor in that list? When alkyl nitrites are protected with inert or near inert gas, you think that it would not vaporize to some degree? Given this scenario, doesn't protected source alkyl nitrite have a longer shelf life? You wrote earlier that an inert atmosphere will extend shelf life by double or some babble. Are you now going to argue that an inert/semi-inert gas is heavier than the vapors and thus will settle between the vapors and the liquid? You couldn't just leave someone else's post be, you had to come rolling on in and smear your shit. It is that ego of yours like others have pointed out. Only Professor Popper's Problem writes truths, everyone else is beneath you. All you do is regurgitate what is in the literature and then proceed to create your misconstructions.

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 00:28...

I make no such claims; I took some advice about replacing headspace oxygen with alkyl nitrite vapor and offered DATA about the idea.

Data supports the idea of sequestering/removing headspace Oxygen, so what about replacing it with alkyl nitrite vapor?

Argonne National laboratory doesn't like the idea, saying

"The decomposition of the alkyl nitrites presented here (R-CH2O-NO) and reactions of the alkyl radicals (R) follow a common set of reactions, Table 1

The initial step is scission of the weak O-NO
bond to form an oxy radical (R-CH2O) and NO.

For C1-C4 alkyl nitrites Batt et al. [2] determined the ONO
bond energy to be ~411.5 kcal/mol. The next weakest bond is C-ONO, ~60 kcal/mol [1,2] and at the low temperatures of this work breaking this bond will be uncompetitive with loss of an NO group.

Thus the alkyl nitrites decompose solely by loss of NO.
"

Now, with data that Oxygen will kill alkyl nitrite, and alkyl nitrite vapors are the genesis of alkyl nitrite decomposition, one may conclude that the idea of replacing O2 with vapor has NO merit

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 01:18...

Wow - a circle jerk - but I am going to try to contain myself -

The guy at home has two choices:

a) after huffing out all the vapor immediately capping the bottle trapping in air (which includes H2O and O2)

b) after huffing out all the vapor letting the bottle sit some time to have the vapor displace the lighter air(H2O and O2) and then capping.

I recommend b while you advocate locking the in the water and oxygen. Two of the three big evil degradation causes which you yourself listed previously.

Shock us all: How about you recant for once. Somehow you must of misunderstood the scenario and didn't think it properly through and after my helping with the outline above you agree with b over a. What do you say?

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 16:39...

Are you purposely trying to sabotage ADiy maker's work? I can't think of any explanation; why someone would suggest to trap vapors, identified as the start of decomposition, in the bottle.

You can double down all you want, and you do a lot of that, along with arrogance, but it won't change the fact that your advice to the OP was either purposely baiting somebody, waiting for them to pick a fight, or it was innocently false.

I lean towards baiting, but everyone can decide for themselves.

OP: you can do what you wish, but trapping vapors in the bottle has been identified by a national laboratory of the United States as being the start of the decomposition landslide.

The alternative, to trap oxygen in the bottle (which is a known lysing agent, will oxidize alkyl nitrite, and that's not good either (I posted previously charts illustrating the effects of temp, oxygen and water), but decomposition is not lysis; the report from Argonne lab says, decomposition STARTS will the vapor.

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 18:21...

@ Professor Chuckles -

You are living in a fantasy world if you somehow think what you wrote is even remotely true. There is always some significant amount of vapor even when the unopened product is packed with nitrogen or argon. I am really starting to question your sanity. Your position is so ridiculous and still you back it up with more babble bullshit.

The OP was asking about OTC vs DYI. Not that there is any difference aside from some OTC the actual amount of Alkyl Nitrites are less so and there is less to expend. But somehow you found the need to excuse me of being a DIY saboteur. Who am I the French resistant to your Nazi regime on here? WTF! If you want us to believe you are not PopperChef along with all the others characters running around in your head then start acting differently Professor Popper's Problem. In a way your chosen 'current' pseudonym is quite apropos to your personality disfunctions.

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 19:03...

I don't know, maybe english is a second language?

The paper states quite clearly, in english, that alkyl nitrite decomposition STARTS with breaking the RO-NO link;

breaking the RO-NO link can happen by heat, oxygen or water, but once it starts (with the liberation of vapor (NO) it continues to acids, acetates and nitrates.

Replacing oxygen with vapor is saving the decomposition process its first step (cleaving the ONO bond) and HELPING the decomposition.

You've skipped the step of oxidatioin, but replaced it with the initial result of oxidation (cleaving the ONO bond)

MO'ASS! said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 20:49...

Title of said paper, please.

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 20:57...

Thermal dissociation of alkyl nitrites and recombination of alkyl
radicals

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 21:01...

table 1:

Thermal dissociation of alkyl nitrites and recombination of alkyl
radicals

table 1 discussion:

https://imgur.com/gallery/yng8rF1

TheMaster (Baiter) said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 21:20...

MO'ASS as it relates to the scenario I posted that paper is not related. The results were performed at something like 400C and one hundredth atmosphere; there or about.

Just another example of Prof Pop Weasel using another scientific source that he barely comprehends to play make-believe.

If you are needing a link to it: https://zenodo.org/record/3747595/files/Final_nitrites.pdf?download=1

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 21:30...

read the thing before you abruptly dismiss it:
"
Abstract
The thermal dissociations of three alkyl nitrites (propyl, n-butyl and i-butyl) have been studied in a diaphragmless shock tube by laser schlieren densitometry over 700< T<1000K and 60<P<240 Torr.

At the low temperatures of this work, the alkyl radicals are thermally stable and thus their recombination reactions were also studied.
"

The Professor said on Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 22:03...

the paper proposes what they call a 'generic' mechanism for alkyl nitrite decomposition. They further develop a procedure to see if the proposal fits experimental data.

In order to get meaningful results, they chose a temperature and pressure range''''' "Furthermore, over the majority of the temperature range of these experiments the rate of dissociation of the alkyl radicals is slow compared to the rates of their recombination and dissociation reactions, and makes little contribution. "

otherwise, results from the alkyl nitrite DISSOCIATION would corrupt the examination of the alkoxy radical's DECOMPOSITION.

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