Is it the recipe or the ingredients ?
Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum
Topic created by Elvis
on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 at 15:59
Elvis said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 at 15:59...
As a long time popper user who was lucky enough to had many years of using the awesome poppers made by Joe Miller, my feeble and brain cell depleted mind has pondered this question.
There are some smart chemists out there making some quality poppers. But most everyone agrees that they are not quite on par with Joe's legendary products.
So please correct me if I'm wrong, but it would appear that either one or two issues stand in the way. Either Joe had this secret recipe that still remains a mystery.( or the recipe was given to him ) Or the ingredients available today are either not as good or not available.
So 1- Recipe or 2- Ingredients
Or maybe it is something else ??
The Professor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 at 17:48...
It's neither; the whole thing is a money grab.
The actual procedure isn't very difficult; put some reactants in a solvent; they fall apart and recombine. One should be able to get control of the reaction after a few weeks of trials; one set to determine optimum reaction speed, one for temperature, then the molar ratios.
After the crude yield, neutralization is key to a product that won't give you congestion, sore throat, nostrils, etc.
That's a hurdle that manufacturers don't seem to want to overcome, because it drops the yield of their product, and they'd rather charge you for a pound of product that gives you fits, rather than 3/4 of a pound that is smooth.
A customer can make an otherwise decent product more smooth:
The next hurdle is stabilization, and most manufacturers don't give a damn in this regard either.
PWD's best idea (and biggest scam IMO) was to use a nitrite soluble acid scavenger to keep the product seemingly 'fresh'
ELO (epoxidized linseed oil) fit the bill perfectly, it blends in with the nitrite, so nobody knew they were only getting 60% nitrite in the bottle).
The acid scavenger lets a customer get away with not having to treat the nitrite reasonably (limited bottle openings, dosing in a high headspace container, while storing in a low headspace container (less oxidation)), because the degradation products are somewhat neutralized on the go (e.g. butyric acid will be neutralized, but that leaves behind sodium butyrate, which also builds up to be a problem).
These days, nobody seems to be using ELO (in fact, places like artisanal pride themselves in not using any 'diluents' and only stabilizer (the big thing they don't mention is that stabilizer is meant to prevent gas build up in sealed jars, open them once and the stabilization is mostly overcome by oxygen)
So it's not an intractable problem, it just doesn't have many that are interested in doing it well.
Elvis said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 at 19:29...
Okay. Makes sense. So basically, what you are saying is that the ingredients available today are top shelf, and the recipe and process is known and available. So there is really no reason why a maker could not start churning out primo top of the line poppers comparable to the poppers of old. Or at least poppers of the best quality that can be made ?
With most people unhappy with the quality of today's poppers, you would think this would be the money making opportunity of a lifetime for someone with the equipment and business know how.
But since poppers are still somewhat non-mainstream, perhaps the market really isn't there for someone to invest a lot of capital into.
Billy said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 at 20:31...
Elvis, have you tried the various offerings of Goldencock Poppers, Artisanal Cleaners, and Anamyl (of Australia) ? What were your opinions, did they all fall short?
Elvis said on Sat, 4 Sep 2021 at 12:54...
Hey Billy. Ive ordered from Artisanal a few times. Kaboom and Flamin. They were decent. But they never really added much to the hypno horny feeling that older poppers gave me. These were powerful for sure. But not in a way that brought on the trance like dirty feeling and sexual slutty feeling. I can describe these poppers as causing more of a body shock type feeling.
Maybe I'm just wishing for something that doesn't exist anymore. But I used to spend hours with a porn magazine and a bottle of Rush. It was awesome. Maybe my brain is a little bit burnt out too.
I plan on trying Goldencock Poppers sometime. But I think they are Amyl. Im sure the old poppers I was used to were all isobutyl. So I'm not sure I will get the results I am looking for from Amyl. Im a straight dude and not into any anal play. Just jerking off. So the anal relaxation aspect that Amyl provides isn't necessary for me.
purist said on Sat, 4 Sep 2021 at 13:16...
The reason of the lack of hypno feeling could be too pure amyl. Because when amyl nitrite is a mixture containing all isomers there are some isomers which are a little narcotic but do not cause other symptoms. If product is only pure isopentyl or especially n-pentyl no narcotic effect exist. And the secrecy was not isobutyl, the secrecy was alkyl nitrite mixture.
The Professor said on Sat, 4 Sep 2021 at 17:17...
here's a pic describing the overall composition of an Alkyl nitrite.
The R section is a number of methyl groups (the body), determined by the type of alcohol used. The first red ball from the left is Oxygen (the neck), and the double bonded red and blue balls are nitric oxide (the head)
The active ingredient in any Alkyl nitrite is Nitric Oxide (NO). In use, the inhaled vapor is metabolised; first the head falls off of the neck, leaving an Alkoxy radical (RO) and nitric oxide (NO). Nitric oxide does its job, and the alkyl radical is pissed away.
things to keep in mind about alkyl nitrites:
1. The alcohol used is converted to a chain of methyl groups (the length of which is determined by the parent alcohol)
2. the methyl groups chain length determines the volatilty of the nitrite, not the effects
3. The methyl groups exist in very low concentration (PPM) in the bloodstream, and are processed by the kidneys
Altogether, the type of alcohol has no bearing on effects, it just determines how strong the vapor will be
Nitritespecialist said on Sun, 5 Sep 2021 at 14:46...
@Elvis....making high quality consistent nitrites requires a chemist who can perform QC on periodic batches and also the reagents if needed. Reagents do expire and must be stored properly and guarded against degradation. The manager of Locker Room Marketing, Canada's primary popper maker, told me on the phone that butyl nitrite is difficult to make and that they use QC and a chemist to help make their product. He said it's necessary to maintain high quality. When I asked, he wouldn't say if they added any butyl nitrite to their line of poppers, which are supposedly mostly amyl and hexyl nitrite. Butyl nitrite was likely the first OTC popper that replaced drug store amyl nitrite. It leaves a room smelling distinctly like a locker room that's just been deodorized, hence one of the first brand names "Locker Room".
The Professor said on Sun, 5 Sep 2021 at 17:45...
It is more accurate to say that Butyl acetate in combination with butanoic acid smells a bit like a deodorized locker room, not the Butyl Nitrite. Earlier preps were less pure than what is possible today Pure Butyl nitrite smells like ginger ale
Elvis said on Wed, 8 Sep 2021 at 14:17...
Thanks everyone for your input. So, I guess the bottom line is a lack of QC. Because from what I've been told on here, everything currently exists for poppers that can be made with the quality and longevity of those fantasic old PWD poppers that I grew up with.
But as an example I look at the current PWD products that you can purchase directly from PWD themselves. I read the recent article. Apparently they are still producing their " Never Fake it " PWD branded poppers. Are they like the old good stuff ? No. Not ever close. I've ordered from them directly. No fakes. If they have the means to produce what they made in the past, they would have people throwing money at them to get those poppers. They were great and lasted forever.
Not just the PWD company. I just can't understand why a popper making business would not produce primo stuff if they could. ( which apparently they can if they wanted to )
The Professor said on Wed, 8 Sep 2021 at 15:53...
Think from the manufacturers perspective; they are selling just fine as is; sure the suck, but aside from replacing the odd bottle here and there due to leaking, there's really no incentive to improve.
Customers are on the hamster wheel of trying company X, hating it, then trying company Y, same but different, company Z more of the same but company Q might be better.
Things won't improve unless there's a financial motivation; this is a more or less un-regulated product, money reigns supreme.
The Professor said on Wed, 8 Sep 2021 at 15:56...
While Joe Miller was alive, he evidently kept the whole thing rolling through extremely generous donations (millions) to various organizations. Many were gay rights groups, but many were adversaries wanting to get their beak wet. Money can go a long way to relax regulations or pay fines or even to look the other way.