Poppers too difficult to make outside a lab...
Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum
Topic created by Nitritespecialist
on Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 21:15
Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 21:15...
Finally have given up on trying to make consistently good poppers at home....been ten years of trial and tribulations. My final conclusion is that the reagents, especially the SN, are too unstable to produce good results long term. So it's imperative that during each preparation, it is a known that each reagent is of sufficient quality to have a successful synthesis, yield that doesn't require distillation. It's impossible to know the exact quality/purity of each reagent upon receipt, and during use over time. Without that knowledge, it's impossible to achieve consistency. This is why OTC poppers are all over the map in terms of quality/consistency, besides the fact that once made, even if pure, they do degrade with time.
Jacko said on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 03:48...
Coming at this from an engineering rather than a pure chemistry angle, maybe you should look into distillation?
If you canít be sure of the consistency of your raw materials, and reliable purity is your goal, adding an upgrading step makes sense to me.
Iíve seen plenty of affordable lab scale kits out there and with a sensitive low temp electric hotplate you should be able to effectively purify even a crude product into something much better. Safety first, however. You want to make sure the rig is airtight to avoid vapor leaks!
R Don said on Mon, 5 Apr 2021 at 11:19...
It's impossible to match Joe's secret formula let alone make it at home
Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 6 Apr 2021 at 15:26...
@R Don...I wouldn't say it's impossible. I would say it's very difficult to get consistent results over time. It's most likely the SN, which degrades far more readily than the muriatic acid or one pentanol. If someone receives a shipment of partially degraded SN, then reactions will be problematic.
The Professor said on Sun, 11 Apr 2021 at 21:15...
"It's most likely the SN, which degrades far more readily than the muriatic acid or one pentanol. If someone receives a shipment of partially degraded SN, then reactions will be problematic."
NaNO2 doesn't degrade quite as quickly as you are claiming. Additionally, IF NaNO2 is suspected to have partially oxidized to NaNO3, it is a simple matter to refine the crude NaNO2.
Nitritespecialist said on Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 00:46...
@Professor....seems I've been mixing poppers wrong for ten years. Though I've searched the web repeatedly for various methods that might help me achieve greater success, I just read 3 instances this weekend that indicate I have been mixing wrong. Sciencemadness has two examples, both of which led me to the German patent from 2008 that used a batch method whereby a 40% solution of SN was added to a mixture of acid/alcohol and NOT the other way around as I have been doing. It was a balanced ratio amount...with tiny excess of acid and SN.
I have tried it twice and got a very different NAN...much more potent....heart thumping effect. Amazing ass relax/effects.
The Professor said on Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 19:28...
I agree that you have probably been doing it wrong for years.
I disagree that the inverse dropping of NaNO2, rather than the acid, would make any difference in a properly implemented prep.
I also disagree that exceeding the stoichiometry by large amount will have any effect other than generating larger quantities of waste salts.
It's unusual, and perplexing, that your opinions and conclusions jump all over the map; in a matter of weeks, you've turned tables and contradicted yourself on several issues.
Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 15:33...
@Professor...anyone working at home with no ability to analyze purity is working at a severe disadvantage....which I have stated before....hence the inconclusive opinions as I only have my nose and perception of effects as well as aging of product to give me any clues as to purity. Professional chemists analyze purity to see what they've ended up with....but some of them don't also test for all impurities present, which can be equally important.
Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 15:38...
One opinion I have not changed is that there is a lot of variation possible when making poppers....no doubt due to any number of impurities. Even as a pure popper is being used, it is degrading as the effects/odor are also changing. The degradation over a short period of time gives a clue as to how much variation is possible, considering home made poppers could very easily be bottled with some degree of degradation and impurity already present.
Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 17:29...
@Professor....and do you strongly disagree with the German patent and what that group of chemists found to be true? If you disagree with their findings, then you must think their patent is bogus BS.
The Professor said on Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 17:35...
So nitriteSPECIALIST is just a joke then, eh?
1. Have you ever done a fragmentation analysis on any Alkyl Nitrite? That can be done without lab equipment, and would have told you that Isovaleric acid is NOT responsible for the odors you claim to be proof of good result.
2. Isovaleric isn't even a possible degradation product of an alkyl nitrite, and a specialist would know that, without equipment.
3. Washing the crude yield 10 or more times?. Salting out is a liquid-liquid extraction; it removes WATER; that is all. It doesn't remove water soluble impurities, as you have claimed. A specialist would know that without equipment.
4. Assuming that impurities hasten degradation? This is chemistry, not cooking. a tiny bit of bacteria in a cookie will overtake the product with impurities. This is comically wrong for someone that claims to have been failing for ten years (did it not occur to you to hire a chemist?).
The BDE of an alkyl nitrite is on average 40kcal/mol-1. Left standing at STP, an unstabilized nitrite vial of 10ml will reach 50% viability in 6-8 hours, and will be completely inert in about 2 weeks.
The BDE doesn't change with impurities; it can't possibly.
A specialist would know that, without equipment.
The presence of an impurity doesn't change the BDE; the BDE of alkyl nitrites is already very low, which is why they fall apart quite readily.
5. Assuming N-Amyl nitrite is the best because some 'powers that be' boogey man is keeping the ingredients expensive?
Of the 8 Amyl alcohol isomers, the cheapest to produce is Isoamyl, as it's naturally produced during fermentation. The other isomers have to be synthesized, and that is the reason they are more expensive. Illicit use of Amyl alcohols in NO WAY dominates the market for the tons that are produced annually; it's a consipracy theory level belief.
the n in N-Amyl (n as in NORMAL) in NO WAY implies the natural presentation; it simply refers to the un-branched chain.
A specialist would now this, and so many other things, without access to lab equipment.
I get that you are playing your own lab rat, but that doesn't make you a specialist, it only makes you dangerous and ignorant.