Joseph F. Miller founder of PWD - theory

Topic created by Nitritespecialist
on Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 22:51

Nitritespecialist said on Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 22:51...

Joe was said to be the popper KING of the world. He killed himself in 2010 and had been in business since about 1970...40 years. I believe all the poppers I was buying in 2008-10 were made by his company.

It was said that the FBI had planned to raid his operation in Indianapolis and perhaps this led to Joe's suicide. I don't know if they did in fact raid his place. I believe he could have been making amyl nitrite, because the poppers I was buying in 2008-10, were most like amyl nitrite and NEVER like butyl, a banana smelling popper, which leaves a distinct locker room scent in a room after use. I NEVER smelled that odor in 2008-10. Isobutyl nitrite is more bitter smelling and smells like nail polish compounds. I don't remember that odor either. Amyl nitrite is much more mild....and sometimes slightly sweet and fruity.

If in fact, Joe was the world's popper linchpin, then it would follow that the FEDS would want to put him out of business and perhaps they found a legitimate reason to raid him, if he was in fact making amyl nitrite.

Joe must have had technical help producing his poppers. This person or persons who were directly involved in making his poppers were probably told to NEVER help anyone else set up shop, which is why over 10 years later, there is no one in the Western Hemisphere producing consistently good poppers like his were. Good poppers are not easy to make and they require a rock solid method along with QC of both reagents and product. Joe was not a chemist, but he had a chemist friend who copied Eli Lily's formula and helped him set up shop, there in Indianapolis where Eli Lily must have been making amyl nitrite for decades.

The point is: we may never see consistently good poppers ever again. It's in the interest of the FEDS to keep knowledge of poppers confusing so there isn't a knowledge based push to make them legal again. As long as black market poppers are of inferior or inconsistent quality, the FEDS know the demand will stay low. Perfect strategy for killing the demand and therefore the problem.

OutTrumped said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 02:02...

I will never understand why these fairy tales persist. Amyl nitrite is added to even today's OTC stuff because it produces the throbbing heart. Amyl nitrite is crap as far as the high and horniness. For god's sake it is the easiest to brew. It just is not marketed because it is still considered a drug and illegal to retail. But it is in all the OTCs. The manufacturer's can get away with it since they have the excuse of other alkies breaking down and forming some amount of amyl in the bottle. The gov't is not cracking down on the stuff since it is considered a necessary evil for anal sex. If (and hopefully never for all people's rights) the gov't comes after homosexual men, it will be 10 for possession of a flat bottle of poppers. Just like back in the 60's for possessing a joint in Cali of all places. Now you can get joints from your granny which she buys from the dispensary due the street. What a fucked up world this is.

Here be dragons said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 10:02...

@Nitritespecialist: love your informative and interesting posts. In this case though you are off base. The information is just conspiracy BS first published at the time on some Indiana blog. Since then it has taken on a life of its own. Just so you know: there was another tragedy the preceded Joe's. It is all very sad.

In 2010 there was some poppers blog guy (cannot recall who) who also added a lot of fuel to this speculation and spread these rumors.

>had been in business since about 1970...40 years.

No. He did not run PWD since 1970. Rush was originally amyl snappers, that is true, but it was nothing to do with him at that time. That was Jay Freezer out of San Fransisco.

There is no secret war against poppers, sorry. The truth is just a matter of human tragedy, change of ownership, and some other mundane factors.

Jako said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 11:57...

No doubt about it, Joe had a secret formula.
We haven't had any decent poppers in The UK since 2010. Coincidence? I think not.

Nitritespecialist said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 13:56...

Yet more confusing, unhelpful rants. It is true...there is no "secret" war on poppers. That's because it's right out there in the open, starting back when AIDS first appeared and scientists were trying very hard to prove it somehow caused AIDS, and if not that...Karposi's Sarcoma. They didn't quite succeed in proving their theory, but they did manage to get poppers for human consumption banned by 1988 or 1991 in the USA. Yep...not a secret. Oh...we need to go back to 1969, when the FEDS first took amyl nitrite off the market OTC....why? Because gays and others were using it for fun. Nope....not a secret. Let's fast forward to the present. There was a big effort to ban them in England...and they still partially are except for super toxic Isopropyl nitrite. They successfully got them ALL banned in Canada. They tried in Australia and butyl/isobutyl are banned in France I believe. So I agree....the FEDS wanting to ban poppers is NOT a SECRET!!!

Nitritespecialist said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 14:03...

@Jako...interesting that you said good poppers disappeared in 2010 in the UK. Here in the USA, right after Joe died in August 2010, all popper sites went down and I could no longer buy poppers anywhere. My last purchase was from Picturebrite.com out of Denver. I had bought ten 10ml bottles from them...all similar in odor and effects. It was a few months before I saw them available again....and they were always crap...acidic with unpleasant to no effects. I once bought 3 bottles online in that subsequent period and they made me very sick. The two contrarian posters are exactly why good poppers will never be available again.

Nitritespecialist said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 14:06...

And for the record, the other nitrites DO NOT break down into amyl nitrite. They break down into their corresponding alcohols.

There would only be a mixture of different nitrites IF the base alcohols contained a mixture. Getting pure alcohols was a problem early on when chemists were first studying the alkyl nitrites.

Saggy Balls said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 15:03...

So maybe, just maybe, the secret formula is still out there waiting to be rediscovered by someone either by accident or by trial and error. One can only hope.I do remember those days. I actually remember those days way back to the late 1980s. I remember them being even better back then.

Nitritespecialist said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 15:48...

@Saggy Balls....I never did poppers back then so I can't go on personal experience as to odor or effects of those poppers.

But I can say with good assurance that amyl nitrite seems to have the least toxicity and mildest odor....so it would probably be the one you may not notice for its odor...unless it's badly degraded. I know for a fact how isobutyl and butyl smell because I bought 95% pure from the chemical giants. I also bought isopentyl nitrite, 95% pure from a few chemical giants. So I wasn't guessing as to what I was testing.

Saggy Balls. said on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 20:40...

Yep. I'm an older dude. With many years of buying PWD product. First time from a Lion's Den in Ohio. Late 1980s. One thing I did notice for sure is that the old product that I used to buy ( late 80s to mid to late 90s ) is different than the PWD stuff early to mid 2000s. What I'm getting at is that somewhere between then, the formula changed. I was probably a 90% Rush buyer. And even though people say how good the product was early 2000s, It was even better before that. Maybe it was a chemical change. Who knows. Or maybe my brain took a brain cell dump all at once. But I remember parties in the early 90s where just one or two sniffs straight from the bottle were all it took. I could look at a page in a porn mag and the images would literally come to life with movement. My teenage cock was loving it.

Here be dragons said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:04...

>when the FEDS first took amyl

Actually a low level clerk in New York reported it, basically a busybody. This does not fit with any Illuminati style conspiracy, but the facts rarely do.

>a big effort to ban them in England.

A mistake and the legislation was not aimed at volatile nitrites - it got included by mistake, and then removed. No "big effort", sorry.

>scientists

Duesberg? Really? I suppose you could call him a scientist...but his crazy theories were quickly debunked.

Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 09:18...

@saggy....thanks for the interesting story about historical poppers going way back. It would offer more clues if you could remember odors and more specific effects......like ass relax...strong, fast, duration? sudden or gradual? Also, effects on blood pressure/anemia? Also, any unpleasant side effects, such as extreme drunkenness...can't talk, can't walk?

Odors....banana? Locker room? Mild...slightly fruity? Nail polish compounds. Sweet?

I think Joe did change his formula and you noticed it. As I said, I only started poppers in 2008 and finished OTC when Joe died because they ALL were garbage after that. I don't remember banana(butyl) or locker room odor(butyl)....it could have been isobutyl, but if it was, I don't remember a sweet pungent nail polish scent. What I remember is a very very mild odor, nothing that stood out. And I never got mucous, cough or side effects. I did ten bottles in a week in LA and didn't have one side effect. Those bottles had mild odors...effects were not over the top strong. They were platinum JJ 10 mls.

popperass said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 09:25...

We'll probably be hearing NEXT from Dragon about how all the government authorities in the world are poised to make USP grade alkyl nitrites available OTC, using the safest, least toxic types for human consumption....all because they really HATE banning them and forcing inhalers to use impure toxic, black market ones not fit for human consumption.

popperass said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 09:27...

Talk about living in an alternative universe with alternative facts.

Jako said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 10:25...

Here be dragons:
'a big effort to ban them in England.
A mistake and the legislation was not aimed at volatile nitrites - it got included by mistake, and then removed. No "big effort", sorry.

I suppose the proposed 7 year jail sentence was a mistake too ?

Saggy Balls said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 14:18...

@nitritespecialist. I honestly can't remember the smell of it from back then. I'm thinking that I was probably 16 years old or so when I got my first bottle. Mainly as just a party enhancer. A buddy of mine introduced it to me. ( both straight males ) We just enjoyed the powerful euphoric head rush that it gave us. After that, I just used it for self masturbation. Wish I could remember the smell. But I can't. Must have been pleasant though.

Jako said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:08...

Saggy Balls:
A musty smell, reminiscent of sweaty old socks?

A strong pulse in the head, followed by rapid heartbeat and then a smooth warm long lasting rush to the head ?

Here be dragons said on Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 16:17...

@popperass. No. I agree largely with what Nitritespecialist says about formulas. I just do not think there is any conspiracy IMHO. I do not think anyone gives a damn to the degree suggested. Canada, Australia, and Japan maybe? Aus & Japan are nanny states, Canada is another story altogether. For sure the end result of all of this is not pleasing, but I am only calling out this troll bullshit about "secret formulas" and other suggestions about mysteries - it is, in reality, all rather mundane.

IBN is banned due to perceived carcinogenic properties by the European Union. Fact. It is also banned in one US state. Now that the UK has departed from the EU I assume they can sell what they like...no idea about that. I also have no idea why isopropyl is so prevalent.

sissy said on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 at 06:34...

cus it is cheap + easy to make, doesn't loose potency real quick, and isn't banned.

Always Poppers. Everything Poppers. said on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 at 07:09...

I've been chasing the dragon for 12 years. I remember the PWD days of old. Nothing compares. I literally would merge with the porn.
My orgasms were akin to astral projection. Explosive and I would see fireworks.

Always Poppers. Everything Poppers. said on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 at 18:42...

I wish someone would release his methods. I've never found anything that took me to that dimension. I've found decent products but nothing that compares to Old Skrool PWD. Artisnal Cleaners is good but still not PWD.

Nitritespecialist said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 17:11...

@Always....as you suggest, whoever helped Joe make poppers isn't giving up the method. You would think it would be very lucrative to do so. But then again......if the FEDS were involved in raiding Joe's place, then it would follow that any techs would have had the fear of the lord placed in them.

Two things that are clear: Consistently great poppers are not easy to make. And NOBODY is making the exact same kind and way that Joe did for reasons nobody can sufficiently explain.

Jako said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 18:48...

I'm certain Joe's secret formula was being used in British poppers in the 90's. The labelling always said contains 'alkyl nitrites' back then.

Nitritespecialist said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 22:05...

@Jako...Joe's poppers were sold worldwide I believe. It would be helpful to know what the label stated for location of maker.

It can be faked, but I think "Indianapolis, IN" may have been commonly seen on Joe's poppers.

Jako said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 22:20...

I started on 'Liquid Gold' made by Perpol in the UK. They've been making manufacturing poppers since the 80's. They must know a thing or two ?

Titan pop said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 22:39...

This thread is the result of someone sniffing while reading Qanon posts... I’ve got no problem believing that formulas have changed, things used to be better many years back, etc. But enough with your theories about “THE FEDS”.

Always Poppers. Everything Poppers. said on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 23:37...

I heard he killed himself from guilt over a few guys who had heart attacks from mixing viagra with popper hits. Not his fault if true. This thread is PaNon. Poppers Anon. LOL! What's funny is the Double scorpio product is made by a chemist and not really that good.

Saggy Balls said on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 15:26...

I also think that various other companies may have been reselling Joe's product. Awhile back , a person could buy poppers on Amazon.com. They stopped selling them there maybe 10-12 years ago or so. Anyway, I bought 4 bottles of a brand called "Nitro". I don't think that was a PWD brand. But it was high quality stuff. It was exactly like the PWD Rush brand that I was used to.

Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 19:13...

@Titanpop....when I say "FEDS" I mean any governing bodies that have made poppers illegal for human consumption. Now...this is NOT a theory, it's a FACT. Poppers have been made illegal for human consumption in many countries, including the USA.

Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 19:19...

Now...you can say that just because so many countries have jumped on the "no poppers for human consumption" bandwagon is just random chance OR that poppers are so obviously bad for people, that it's a given that there would be unanimous consensus across all the sovereign nations that they should be illegal. Or you could justly theorize that there is some unseen lobbying taking place(conspiracy if you will) that has argued effectively against poppers being legal across many different sovereign nations.

Stevo said on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 20:44...

@Nitritespecialist. The 'War" on drugs is still very much alive and well my friend. Big Pharma and other elites have a vested interest in keeping all drugs except prescription drugs illegal. Psilocybin is proving to be very helpful for depression/anxiety/PTSD etc, but benzos are making the corporates billions each year, while the drug is killing people. Just my 2 cents worth. Peace :-)

Nitritespecialist said on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 22:02...

@Stevo....thanks for backing up my "conspiracy" theory that the war on poppers(and other illicit) drugs is not actually a theory but a fact. The only way multiple sovereign nations would arrive at the same premise that all illicit recreational drugs are BAD and should be banned is if there are groups of powerful people constantly conspiring to make them illegal. It would seem to me that the most rational thing to do would be to design a relatively "SAFE" drug that would provide a legal high without all the risks, side effects associated with alcohol and some of the more desirable illicit drugs. With poppers, the biggest risk is poor quality(more toxic to ineffective) and/or risky sexual behavior.

Here be dragons said on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 09:39...

@Titan pop LOL....I am amazed at these bizarre theories. So much on this thread is just plain wrong! Secrets..."alkyl nitrite" and all, and a mysterious international cabal of popper haters.

groups of powerful people constantly conspiring

lol yeah they meet up in a underground cave below the Vatican and dress up as goats.

Enough already!!

Nitritespecialist said on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 17:36...

@Here....you totally misquoted every comment and painted a false narrative. Politically I am VERY INDEPENDENT....so I see the lies coming from both sides and I reject them all.

Here be dragons said on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 18:12...

I understand your points in a general sense, NS. I just don't think it applies to poppers. I actually respect your expertise. We can agree to differ on this one.

40 Years of Poppers Experience said on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 02:27...

I first used PWD Rush in 1980. Definitely different/superior quality in those days compared to the '90s and 2000s. Yes, a definite dive in quality after 2010. I was buying from Picture Brite then. They were raided by Dept. of Homeland Security (Yes. DHS. This was according to Picture Brite) who confiscated their stock. PB is still around, but hasn't sold poppers since that raid. Sounds like involvement on the part of the "Feds", doesn't it?

One effect of the old poppers that I never see mentioned is the intense giggling fits they would induce. There is evidence of this in the John Waters film "Pink Flamingos" during the birthday party scene. Someone gives Divine a pack of the real thing as a gift (glass ampules in cloth amyl nitrite) as a gift. They sniff some and the laughing ensues.

In the early '80s BS poppers were the exception, not the rule. Some sucked, most were good and PWD were consistently the best. No lingering effects and maybe a headache after heavy, heavy use. And yeah, it did take less to get you there. Also, they seemed like they retained their potency forever. They were often on sale in the adult bookstores 2 bottles for $7 and about $5 a bottle regular price.

There is always something political about the banning of substances. Look at what happened with vaping. Demonization and restrictions led to unsafe products flooding the market to fill the void. Same with nicotine products (not talking about tobacco) and even immodium which you used to be able to buy in large bottles but now has to be sold in blister packs and smaller amounts because of some BS alleged link to opiod abuse that is similar to HIV/poppers connection from the 1980s.

Indy Popper Fan said on Sat, 11 Dec 2021 at 01:33...

Came across this thread while trying to search for a good source of Poppers. I haven’t used them for 17 years. I actually worked for Joe Miller in 2003. Helped him market his PWD brands in LGBTQ magazines and events. He was also trying to launch a new lube that never came to fruition. I only used his PWD brands…and I loved them. Out of this world experiences. I didn’t try other brands so I can’t compare. His small plant in Indy produced one formula that was used for every PWD brand. I was shocked when I learned that. I suspect most know that by now. I never really felt like I got to know Joe…..he was very secretive and guarded.

Anyway, just ordered a couple bottles from a couple different online retailers. Anxious to see how they compare to what I remember.