Changes in poppers
Posted on Poppers Guide's Forum
Topic created by XLeathers
on Sun, 6 Oct 2013 at 11:00
XLeathers said on Sun, 6 Oct 2013 at 11:00...
Most guys say that the poppers they tried years before were best. My question is this: it is to do with the formula or the manufacturing? I was thinking it can be that you get kinda used to the popper and it just isn't the same. Any ideas about that welcome. Wnt to know which brand is best now? I was buying Iron Horse before and in the past it was Purple Haze. I think it was all isobutl nitrite so wondering if it has all changed or have I!!!
fasty said on Sun, 6 Oct 2013 at 22:53...
It is both formula and manufacturing.
In most of Europe, the only legal formula is the isopropyl type, which most people don't like but that's al there is.
Most of the manufacturers don't care about the quality of what they are making as long as it sells. There are one or two exceptions. The original PWD seemed to be quite particular about quality, but of course they are now long gone.
Finally, you can't go much by the brand name unless you know who made it. There are probably more than 3 companies making something labelled "Iron Horse". Even more making "Jungle Juice"!
Unfortunately, just a case of "buyer beware"
Solomon said on Mon, 7 Oct 2013 at 10:00...
" but of course they are now long gone"
You are sure about that, fasty? There is a lot of speculation on this subject. We know that Joe Miller is deceased, that his twin brother inherited the estate, that he sold the enterprise to another party (and some of the Harding Street fixed assets to SVT in PA). It is my understanding (I only have this from a similar source to The Rush Hour's Harding St employee) that PWD is very much alive and operated by original PWD staff.
I note you say "original PWD" so I think we agree that Joseph Miller era is past. Having said that the original era of Rush, when it was made in California, has also past. The Times they are a-Changin! Did you not care for Gold Rush and Super Rush?
fasty said on Mon, 7 Oct 2013 at 21:57...
I really don't know if any of the original PWD is still operating or not.
The cynical side of me says it's just wishful thinking, although naturally I'd like to think the original staff were still employed.
Sadly, what I do know for sure is that there are numerous companies flagrantly copying PWD branding all over the world. For example, in Europe it appears that the "Gold Rush" and "Super Rush" are both coming from Push Production International in (I believe) Austria.
Solomon said on Tue, 8 Oct 2013 at 09:14...
A good point, fasty. I recall that someone said before that Mr Miller's twin sold the brands to an intellectual property entity called Canyon something? It could be that they licensed Push Production? Maybe, maybe not. The Chinese are obviously pumping out a lot of copies and that is no surprise really. The Chinese economy (and that of various other nations) seems to be feeding modern man's insatiable demand for tat. Conspicuous consumption is the curse of the modern age.
What is your opinion of these Chinese made products? Do you have any experience there? My instinct tells me they will be cutting corners and their manufacturing protocols will not of the highest standard. This may be prejudice though - based upon my nostalgic desire for the quality standards of yesteryear. In this way PWD served as a benchmark for poppers, with Mr Miller's passing that does seem to be lost. Lost in the sense that there is no clear signpost to a quality product, just a lot of fog, speculation, and pot luck, when you buy poppers.
The Hour Rush said on Tue, 8 Oct 2013 at 14:03...
The new entity was called Grand Canyon Products. I try to buy as little as possible of anything made in China. That is no easy feat either as so much crap is made over in Commie Land.
fasty said on Tue, 8 Oct 2013 at 20:58...
I've not tried the Chinese poppers, although to be fair to them several people on another forum have said that some of the isobutyl-based ones are great (although leaking bottles in shipping has been a major issue).
Of course, for several years the only poppers legally available across most of Europe has been the horrid isopropyl type, so getting even poor isobutyl by mail order from China could be an attractive option for many people.
fasty said on Tue, 8 Oct 2013 at 22:14...
Oh, this is interesting:
Grand Canyon Products, Inc isn't new.
There are some old trademark registrations under that company name for many of the old PWD brands like Hardware, Bolt and Rush.
But there also seems to have been much more recent activity (2012) so maybe it is resurrected. Quite how that is associated with the earlier PWD company Great Lakes Products, I don't understand!
Solomon said on Wed, 9 Oct 2013 at 17:15...
Very difficult not to buy Chinese goods, THR. They also have tricky labels - made from real blah blah...but knocked up in a Chinese sweat shop.
I am no expert, but one of the twittering birds elsewhere in PM (may be a tall story) told me that it is possible to make poppers from the by-product of another industrial application. That means that you are not getting a pure Harding Street style aroma but rather a chop suey mix. The element of profit before principle springs to mind...BUT this may be just a lot of old hogwash.
Great Lakes owned the brand? Transferred to this Grand Canyon entity? PWD stands for Pac West Distributing doesn't it. Distributing may imply that they were contracted by the brand owner to distribute the product. Not an unusual state of affairs. If you look at old poppers advertising is there always mention of PWD? I thought it sometimes said GLP on the cap. My guess is that Mr Miller's enterprise was called PWD. We know don't we that he bought Rush etc from Jay Freezer's "distraught mother" after Mr Freezer passed away. It would be interesting to know what the relationship between GLP and Pharmex was. Poppers history...there's a strange subject for a cool Autumn night
fasty said on Wed, 9 Oct 2013 at 18:43...
Oh yes, it's all utterly fascinating. What amuses me is the sheer extent of the bullsh*t in the marketing that suggests people might use these products as "room aromas" or suchlike.
The detailed patent from the SVT guys for a marvellous "nail polish remover" particularly impressed me not merely for the flagrant absurdity of the whole concept, but also the ingenuity of how it appears to circumvent existing law.
About the industrial by-product thing - Well, I did see a youtube clip of isopropyl poppers being made by mixing a particular brand of rust remover with a particular brand of rust inhibitor. Perhaps that's not quite what you were thinking of.
Scratching around a bit, it looks as if Grand Canyon Products may have been bought by someone purely for the intellectual property value of the trademarks. Presumably they hope that someone might wish to re-launch some of the PWD brands and would be willing to pay for the rights to use the TMs. Perhaps they didn't imagine that the cowboys would just use the TMs anyway regardless...
Solomon said on Thu, 10 Oct 2013 at 15:12...
I wouldn't know about that...I stopped painting my nails years ago. On reflection the by-product idea might be a bit of black propaganda. The idea was: it just so happens that X process, which is used to produce Y, also leaves Q. Q being worthless is then bottle up at -$ (no disposal cost) and flogged on after being mixed with cyclohexyl nitrite. But you say some guys are happy with the isobutyl they got so who knows. I imagine there are plenty of Chinese outfits pumping the stuff out anyway, so maybe some is kosher and some is not.
Cowboys have always been around and are nothing new. They went beserk after Mr Miller passed on, I think that is clear. You can see on some blogs some truly disgusting posts which are really adverts/ "So sorry to hear this sad news...but shamelesspoppers.com has some great bargains" Ba! You can also see a lot of crazy folk claiming that he set fire to Harding Street as a type of funeral pyre and other whacky speculation.
Who is Rusty Anchor Marketing then? That is what it says on some Rush bottles. It is all very confusing. The Rush Hour has hinted that there are some major developments about to happen...we will see.
The Rush Hour said on Thu, 10 Oct 2013 at 15:35...
Actually if it wasn't hard to buy Chinese "nail polish remover" (if people would get into the habit of using politically correct names and terms least for US consumers the less problems but eh) the US market would be flooded with these products and far as I can see that is not the case as the shortage is still on going from US manufacturing. I think I would seriously skip Chinese products but some people really want their products I understand that.
I don't know how new GCP is exactly as they "may" been in business doing other things before but far as them having the old trademarks is quite simply because the bought the whole 9 yards from the Miller estate and everything was transferred to GCP from PWD. PWD is only still being used cause it is synonymous with the product. PWD Branded products are as good as ever if not better in my opinion. I know some will get their panties in a bunch over that but I don't care matters none to me.
GCP has already launched the PWD brand products and were using the brands Rush, Hardware, Ram, Bolt, etc but I have a feeling new brands are coming out now. True the "cowboys" will use the TMs regardless but not so much here in the US where the TMs are protected. Most of the copy right violations are outside the US.
GLP was Great Lakes Products which was the company in Indiana that made the Rush, Hardware, Ram, Bolt, etc products. PWD was Pac West Distributing which was the distributor and in reality one in the same as GLP imo. PWD is more a sub brand name now as the products are now distributed and marketed by Rush Anchor Marketing but as I said PWD has meaning and value to keep around. So right now we have products made by GCP and marketed by RAM(Rusty Anchor Marketing). PWD is just kept around cause people know it. All this is irrelevant really I think. Now I could be wrong but I think this pretty spot on.
The Rush Hour said on Thu, 10 Oct 2013 at 15:55...
Oh btw I know of no formula changes vs the "good ol days"
The Rush Hour said on Thu, 10 Oct 2013 at 16:51...
The hints of the major developments at this point are just me speculating btw. What I believe is about to happen is all new brands with new labeling will be launched as nail polish remover. There was never an issue with them being sold as nail polish remover the issue is sites referencing banned uses and terms and what the old brands have a long history of standing for and referencing. I have no "inside" info other than what I get from the Harding Street friend. hehe!
I did see on one site they stated the exact same thing and appear to act like they in the know but they also said this would be resolved by late September and were now heading for late October. Only one thing will prove what is to happen and that is time.
Solomon said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 16:15...
Good points. PWD is a word that is synonymous with high standards, strong product, iconic graphic design, and professionalism. In the sea of poppers weirdness it has always been as trusty as a pair of GH Bass & Co loafers.
As far as getting pantys in a bunch, that is to be expected. Poppers are not the same, are they? LOL. Isobutyl nitrite is isobutyl nitrite and I cannot believe that there is some mysterious production method that was lost when Harding Street was closed. Maybe I am wrong and there was a fairy at Harding Street who sprinkled magic dust. As far as the Nail Polish Remover issue is concerned, that is a matter for the head honcho and not a matter for us. Nobody needs their video head cleaning these-days...things change.
The Rush Hour said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 16:34...
Video Cleaner is OK. That's not what I meant by correct terms, a correct term is anything BUT what it can't be used for according to the CPSC. That is the point on that. I don't know where to find exactly what Akyl Nitrites can be used for but if the US Government is granting patents for nail polish remover would kinda make one guess that is one of them. We all know what the no no in the US now don't we. If someone doesn't well I cant be bothered to point out the obvious. The nail polish remover issue is a concern if sites and retailers and or even consumers cant move on from banned usage and the US Government outright bans Isobutyl, now that would make it an issue I think.
The Rush Hour said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 16:40...
When I write I am only speaking of things in the US. Outside the US isn't of a concern to me that is someone else pony to ride. Here in the US the laws governing akyl nitrites is quite clear and many entities have not been paying attention to them since the 1990 smack down.
No there are no pictures at www.picturebrite.com as the site has been sold out for about 2 months now.
Solomon said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 18:08...
A while back I was reading a thread by a very angry Australian retailer who was being bad mouthed by a bunch of poppers fans (hyenas) The thread was bizarre BUT..and it is a BIG BUT..the aggressive Australian made a valid point. He was saying that he could see a day when the whole train would be derailed (in spectacular fashion) if people didn't pipe down and stop making such a huge fuss about things. I did not address fasty's point but I did think, as I said, that it really is not for us mere mortals to preach to a manufacturer about labeling. I am sorry to say this, but it seems to me that many folks who buy poppers are mentally challenged. To clarify: I am not referring to fasty who has a reputation for level headed and informative opinion.
The Rush Hour said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 18:47...
Oh I am not talking about the about the manufacturers. They seem to know enough about the law to know what to do what to do. It's the retailers and their "key words" who are creating the issues. I mean it is couldn't be any more clearer on the CPSC site what is allowed and what is not allowed but retailers have gotten away with doing things how they want to do them for so long as the CPSC has basically said eh but things are changing. People are making noise, people are making waves, people are demanding things and laws be followed, people with way too much time on their hands and people who think they're out to make the world a better place, we all know the types. Why stir the pot on such a controversial product for a few key words? You could rebrand these Aunt Martha's Deluxe Nail Polish Remover or Mr Smith's Circuit Board Cleaner and in no time at all the people looking for things would know what to look for. I say these people keep thinking they can do what they want will be proven other wise.
Solomon said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 21:44...
Fasty was saying that he was amused by the " flagrant absurdity" of the use of these terms. I thought the absurdity was self explanatory, a necessity.
"people with way too much time on their hands"
Yes, they exist. The irony is that their activity, born of self righteous indignation (and probably lack of purpose in life), will create a worse situation than a mature acceptance of something that is basically safe and has been around for decades. You only have to look at the isopropyl nitrite controversy to see that.
The Rush Hour said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 22:46...
Exactly what these people are going to do, but gotta love the people who in their head are doing something for the good of the race.
fasty said on Sun, 13 Oct 2013 at 22:59...
Another curious thing to throw into the pot :
At the same time as Canada appeared to be clamping down on sale of alkyl nitrites, France appears to have recently jumped from an outright ban to more-or-less a complete free-for-all, with even amyl being sold openly without any disguise.
Solomon said on Mon, 14 Oct 2013 at 15:33...
That is indeed very weird, fasty. France is "blessed" with a legal system based upon the Napoleonic code and my guess is that has allowed them room to maneuver. They also have a very vociferous gay business lobby and they have overturned ALL previous bans as you say. Of course a "free-for-all" means an intelligent consumer driven market, not one based upon regulatory inspired fancy footwork and formula mutations.
The Rush Hour said on Mon, 14 Oct 2013 at 15:57...
Here in the US our problem is the Government (The Right) can't crawl out of bed with the Church. Separation of church and state, bleh!
PJ said on Mon, 14 Oct 2013 at 19:44...
The French ignore rules when it suits them! They once blew up a ship in New Zealand called The Rainbow Warrior. Vive La Liberte!
The Rush Hour said on Mon, 14 Oct 2013 at 22:33...
Oh bash the French? Well call em Freedom Fries!
equestrian mistress said on Tue, 15 Oct 2013 at 06:41...
French army rifle for sale. dropped once, never used. About the evangelicals.. Tammy Fay Bakker (RIP) was my favorite, those lashes!
Solomon said on Tue, 15 Oct 2013 at 16:23...
A lash is one of my favorite things. The Right should have nothing to do with fundamentalist Christianity, but it is a marriage of convenience. Twisting the words of the Bible to suit a reactionary agenda = votes. On the other hand I miss GW Bush and his hawks, they kept the likes of Putin and Bejing in their box. The joke about the Frenchies is historic, they recently whipped a few asses including that slime ball Gaddafi.
Miss Mint Julep said on Fri, 18 Oct 2013 at 20:32...
There are no changes. Who gives a damn if it is called Original Dog Turd Remover as long as it works. What a lot of fuss and nonsense!
Miss Mint Julep said on Fri, 18 Oct 2013 at 20:47...
bet you didn't know this either all you popper queens: they used to be sold labeled as an anti poisoning treatment for fur trappers.
The Rush Hour said on Sat, 19 Oct 2013 at 17:37...
Who cares what it's called? Apparently the US Government does you stupid twat.
Solomon said on Sat, 19 Oct 2013 at 18:58...
@Julep it was once used as an antidote to cyanide poisoning, get your facts straight before preaching your snarky bullshit.
Upformusic said on Sun, 20 Oct 2013 at 19:31...
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION states no euphoric inhalation and states there are products that are exempt from the ban from 2002. There is nothing weird about people might use these products as "room aromas" or suchlike. They do! nitrites ARE used as cleaners for nails and whole bunch of uses. They have other commercial uses to the guy that says "marketing bullshit"
The Rush Hour said on Mon, 21 Oct 2013 at 02:00...
Actually I think the ban is from 1990 but yeah exactly Ufm.
--LOL @ snarky bullshit--
Wolf Sullivan said on Sat, 16 Nov 2013 at 12:18...
This discussion quickly went off track and went on and on and on...
The original question was:
"Most guys say that the poppers they tried years before were best. My question is this: it is to do with the formula or the manufacturing?"
My answer: Obviously both the formula and the manufacturing are equally important. You can have a great formula with horrible manufacturing, and vice versa.
The first time I smoked marijuana it blew my mind! I lay down and watched cartoons in my head and heard music in my head. It was only a few tokes of cheap dope, but it was my first time. It's the same for most drugs, we get a tolerance to them and they don't work as well after using and abusing them for years and years.
sheerturbo said on Thu, 6 Mar 2014 at 19:12...
In the UK amyl was made a medicine, and can only be prescribed by a doctor. The later substances developed to get round the law are the isobutyl/propyl substitutes. For myself they give me headaches and I can say that the new ones are worse than the old ones.
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